Corbyn gun control

[JTO]

It would have been far better to have distributed the bailout sums into every personal bank account in the country -

That was my thought at the time. Seems I wasn't the only one.

 

[ChesterP]

My view of Corbyn is that he is leading a movement.

Be very wary of movements and there ability to engage the masses with little more than rhetoric - the SNP were and remain the same.

I agree. The last election clearly demonstrated this, when even supposedly intelligent people were hoodwinked, along with the impressionable young into voting for the madman. I take that back. He's not a madman, but is a cunning, conniving old hard left Marxist fox who knows exactly how to play the different social groups.

I am utterly bemused how anyone with an iota of intelligence can fall for his rhetoric. Behind the scenes, he and his henchmen in the best of Marxist traditions, are slowly but surely removing the last of the moderate left from office and replacing them with their own brand of hard left lunatics. Just this week we have seen that awful excuse for a human being, the dreadful Mzzzzz Emma Dent Coad piling into Prince Harry and his Grandfather's reputation. It wasn't that long ago that she would have been tried for treason. Unfortunately, this seems to be the calibre of the "popular uprising" we're currently seeing within Labour. Even the intellectually challenged MsAbbot is back in amongst their ranks despite having been uncovered as ill informed, and lacking any sort of intelligent direction time and time again.

God help us if the young, and the liberal lefties, phDs or no, vote en-masse for labour just to spite the Tories or because of some sense of deluded dream for 50's state nationalisation over everything. That would be the point at which I'd sell up everything and emigrate to NZ or Canada and leave the UK to sink in the quagmire that it's created for itself. It would be finished and become nothing more than a third world country under Corbin, who'd probably change the Union flag for the hammer and sickle anyway.

 

[tikka_madras]

1. that the brain of the Tory party has been evacuated from the centre of power. Essentially, no intelligence or experience is permitted anywhere near the policy making machine, which has been spending far too long ignoring conservatism, free market politics, libertarianism etc. in favour of chasing Labour votes with incoherent left of centre policies. This means that nobody sensible can see objectively any good, positive reason to vote Tory. The success of Corbyn is largely a reflection of the intellectual failures of recent Tory PMs and organisational failure of the party.

This is the potentially lethal point. Many people know that Corbyn would be an economic disaster that Britain would struggle to ever recover from. But we can't rely on common sense to keep him out, because without a positive reason to vote Tory it's likely voter apathy will carry him into downing street.

In the last election, May's manifesto was so bad that my jaw fell open when I read it. Something very close to hate for her gripped my heart and if there was anyone else I could have voted for I would have. Since then she's done nothing to change the contempt I held her in at that moment. This isn't a healthy place for the Conservative Party to be in. I even wonder if they are thinking that they'd be better off letting Corbyn make a mess so they have have the next four terms almost unopposed.

 

[VSS]

I agree. The last election clearly demonstrated this, when even supposedly intelligent people were hoodwinked

Sounds just like the Brexit vote

 

[ChesterP]

Sounds just like the Brexit vote

Absolutely....who knew that so many would end up voting remain!?

 

[finnbear270]

Absolutely....who knew that so many would end up voting remain!?

 

[Roro]

But back to the original question, wasn't corbyn a member or something in LACS ? I think he is a vegan (gawd help us) .

Labours latest plan: tackling the deficit through gun licence fees | Coffee House

Corbyn 'disgusted' at Arsenal owner over hunting TV channel | Politics | The Guardian

 

[Apthorpe]

Back to the original question.....if Corbyn got in, your gun licences would be the least of your problems. It'd only take 10 minutes from him realising he needs to appoint a minister for agriculture before all land would be nationalised and we'd be in for collectivisation.

 

[Orion]

Back to the original question.....if Corbyn got in, your gun licences would be the least of your problems. It'd only take 10 minutes from him realising he needs to appoint a minister for agriculture before all land would be nationalised and we'd be in for collectivisation.

Already had a warm up act for that one!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...ew-vegan-farming-minister-Kerry-McCarthy.html

 

[Apthorpe]

This isn't a healthy place for the Conservative Party to be in. I even wonder if they are thinking that they'd be better off letting Corbyn make a mess so they have have the next four terms almost unopposed.

The mess Brown left was more than sufficient to give any halfway competent party four terms unopposed. After Corbyn, Britain would be like Belarus.

 

[slider]

His current Shadow Agriculture Minister is a Vegan = sort of say something about his support for the countryside!

 

[enfieldspares]

Britain would be like Belarus.

As far as gun ownership goes Belarus is like Britain post Thatcher's self-loading rifle ban and Major's handgun ban. So at least all the "Tory boys" here would be happy 'cos you have Tory Gun Control Laws already in place. So whilst he may be unfriendly to shooting the current lot aren't that good on their track record either.

Corbyn may be this and Corbyn may be that but never forget that in the lifetime of any here under fifty years old all the restrictive gun legislation put in place in the UK until the SNP Airgun Act has come from Conservative Governments.

Self-Loading Rifle ban - TORY
Pump Action Rifle ban - TORY
Five Shot Self-Loading and Pump Action Shotguns classed as s1 - TORY
Handgun ban - TORY
Soft Point Ammunition classed as s5 - TORY
Face to Face Sales - TORY

I am sure there are a few more that could be added. Now New Labour under Blair and Left Labour under Corbyn may not have been or may not be shooter friendly but don't ever get the notion that Tory Government's have been shooter friendly either. Sure Cameron held the fee increase and his Environment Secretary canned the extension of a led shot ban. But judged factually on the whole track record?

 

[Roro]

But the tories were going to allow the continued use of .22lr target pistols. It was b-liar and trendy new labour who banned the lot.

 

[enfieldspares]

But the tories were going to allow the continued use of .22lr target pistols.

Not quite Roro. It's a lie. In effect they were going to de facto ban them. What Blair did made the Tory de facto ban a de jure (or a legal ban) and in so doing then ensured that full compensation for anything remotely connected with rimfire pistol shooting had to be then compensated. Under the Tories in respect of rimfire pistols it was both limited and at the Government's final discretion.

The Tory rimfire pistol law required that the things, rimfire pistols be kept in secure sites, that they could not be taken home or kept at home by the owners nor be taken away from the secure site for, say, travel to Bisley to shoot competitively in the NRA or NSRA Meetings. Or indeed for any other competitions.

It's a myth that the Tory rimfire permission would have allowed rimfire pistol shooting to exist in any meaningful form. For the secure sites were to be subject to onerous security requirements. Controlled access doors, CCTV, and in reality s5 hardening levels that are required for the few "heritage pistol" sites that do now exist.

And AFAIR that until those sites were inspected and approved that the rimfire pistols would have to be lodged with appropriate RFDs until they could be transferred to the sites.

Look at the proposed Tory rimfire handgun legislation. And remember what I've written about the secure site requirement. It wasn't at all, in any way, "carry on as before".

It was draconian and in the reality of the facts of the matter - de facto - a rimfire pistol ban. For ANY club that used a quarry range or that did not have a brick clubhouse with CCTV and 24/7 alarms and s5 security hardening would have failed the storage criteria of the Act. It was designed for "the few" and "the many" - you and I, the club shooter - would never meet the requirements

 

[enfieldspares]

This is Tory Home Secretary Michael Howard following the Cullen Report:

I therefore come to Lord Cullen's alternative suggestion of banning multi-shot handguns from individual ownership. I propose to go considerably further than Lord Cullen has suggested in two respects. First, we shall ban all handguns from people's homes. I do not agree with Lord Cullen that it would be safe to allow single-shot handguns to remain in the home. I believe that they should be subject to the same controls as those imposed on multi-shot handguns. Secondly, we shall outlaw high-calibre handguns of the kind used by Thomas Hamilton. Low-calibre handguns-.22 rimfire handguns-will have to be used and kept in licensed clubs.

And how did this then progress through Parliament and the TORY MAJORITY in the House of Commons?

Section 1 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 amends section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968 (the principal Act concerned with controls on firearms) by setting out a general prohibition on handguns and small firearms above .22 calibre. The Act is also designed to require the owners of handguns and small firearms below .22 calibre to keep and use their weapons in secure gun clubs. It will not generally permit the removal of such weapons from such clubs without prior permission from the police.

And:

During the Bill's passage through the House of Lords of the Bill which became the 1997 Act an amendment designed to extend the arrangements for compensation to people who were operating shooting clubs which would be unable to continue to operate, was agreed to in spite of opposition from the then Conservative Government. It was subsequently disagreed to by the House of Commons. A Lords amendment to provide compensation for the business losses of firearms dealers was also subsequently disagreed to when the Bill returned to the House of Commons.

Michael Howard, again, in the House of Commons in November 1996:

We intend that .22 rimfire pistols should be used only under the most stringent conditions in licensed gun clubs. No one would be able to shoot with a .22 pistol until he had been judged fit to do so and had obtained a firearms certificate. The clubs in which the pistols would be kept would have to meet rigorous security criteria and satisfy the police that they were run by people of good character. No gun would be allowed to be removed from a club, except on a police permit. When outside the club, the guns would normally have to be transported by a third party who was authorised by the police as suitable for the task.

The above from Parliamentary Reseacrh Paper of June 1997: file:///C:/Users/user/Downloads/RP97-77.pdf

 

[finnbear270]

Think it's time to drag this back out again!.Orwellian, or not?

 

[Rasputin]

As far as gun ownership goes Belarus is like Britain post Thatcher's self-loading rifle ban and Major's handgun ban. So at least all the "Tory boys" here would be happy 'cos you have Tory Gun Control Laws already in place. So whilst he may be unfriendly to shooting the current lot aren't that good on their track record either.

Corbyn may be this and Corbyn may be that but never forget that in the lifetime of any here under fifty years old all the restrictive gun legislation put in place in the UK until the SNP Airgun Act has come from Conservative Governments.

Self-Loading Rifle ban - TORY
Pump Action Rifle ban - TORY
Five Shot Self-Loading and Pump Action Shotguns classed as s1 - TORY
Handgun ban - TORY
Soft Point Ammunition classed as s5 - TORY
Face to Face Sales - TORY

the whole track record?

in all fairness to the Conservative party they were in power when two of the worst shootings in the uk happened. Very little they could have done under such weight of public opionon. I wouldn’t say they actively targeting shooters they just had to act in light of incidents. Had those incidents never happened it’s unlikely we would have been in the situation we are now.

The difference is Corbyn, Sturgeon et al view shooting as class warfare and will be way more harmful.

 

[Chasey]

Whilst we remain in the EU and subject to the ECJ he can't....not the utility companies. He has to pay full market price. One we "take back control"...oh yes..he absolutely can. On the railways he doesn't have to. When the franchise period runs out they just take them back in house. And there's many believe that they should be so re-acquired.

This is why Corbyn is against the EU and therefore originally anti-EU and in the recent Referendum a "silent" Brexiteer. Whilst we are in the EU no Government can nationalise anything (or as it actually is confiscate private property) without adequate compensation. This is the position that has developed through the ECJ that Theresa May so dislikes.

So the real reason for wanting to remain in the EU should actually be about it's being a check on an authoritarian UK Governmenet (of either the Labour or Tory versions) and such things as nationalisation and/or furher gun confiscations.

It is why in 1988 with the self-loading rifle ban no compenation was, effectively, paid but was in the 1996 handgun ban. It's why there cannot be another Vosper type nationalisation as by Labour in 1970.


When the UK Courts held that it was entirely lawful for a UK Governmnent to decide, itself, the level of compensation it would pay when nationalising a company even if that figure were derisory. As this, f course, was before we joined the EEC and long, long all pre-EU and pre-ECJ

And why the Burmah Oil Case of 1944, and the War Damages Reparations Act 1965 isn't now the last stop on the bus in law in the UK. And why Burmah Oil was raised in the recent Brexit Case in the Supreme Court in the UK.



It is worth reading the Brexit Case and see that what is coming back to the UK when we leave the ECJ isn't about less rights for citizens but about those rights being subject to the whim of a UK Government unchecked. The "contl'being taken back isn't for our direct benefit it is for the benefit of a future dictatorial UK Government that would wish to nationalise, confiscate, abolish fully any right to silence and etc.

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2016-0196-judgment.pdf

That's a relly well constructed and well thought out post many thanks

My personal view on Labour was that they were like a teenager with a credit card, spend spend spend and sod the conciquence.

Conservitives were mum and dad, picking up the pieces and making every one sad with good sound financial reasoning

Sadly in recent years the Cons have proved to be more like the wayward uncle and I have totally lost faith in them


What I am encouraged by is the massive increase in political awareness amongst the 20 to 30 year olds who had previously lost all faith in government. Crobyn has set them alght with political passion and even despite his going with brexit (which 90% of sub 25 years old are against) he still has their vote

I am not a supporter, but he scares me less than many potential so called leaders out there.

And lets face it, in the darkness of a virtual positive press black out and with most taking the **** out of him, he nearly won the election.

Now hes taken seriously and with the torys total cluster fk of a Brexit plan and despised leadership (and potential leader ship) he would stand a good chance of getting in.

I wouldn't choose it my self as a rank Tory, but much like when Blair got in and I was curious to see what a labor right winger would do, I am curious now to see if Corbyn could actualy do something radicaly diferent.

I dont know why the concern over gun ownership, we are at about the minimum we could possably be, but I presonaly wouldn't mind military replica guns banned and can see why that could be considered as a next step.

ATB

 

[Eddie P]

That's a relly well constructed and well thought out post many thanks

My personal view on Labour was that they were like a teenager with a credit card, spend spend spend and sod the conciquence.

Conservitives were mum and dad picking up the pieces and making every one sad with good sound financial reasoning

Sadly in recent years the Cons have proved to be more like the wayward uncle and I have totally lost faith in them


What I am encouraged by is the massive increase in political awareness amongst the 20o -30 year olds who had previously lost all faith in government. Crobyn has set them alght with political passion and even despite his going with brexit (which 90% of sub 25 years old are against) he still has their vote

I am not a supporter but he scares me less than many potential so called leaders out there.

And lets face it, in the darkness of a virtual positive press black out and with most taking the **** out of him he nearly won the election.

Now hes taken seriously and with the torys total cluster fk of a Brexit plan and despised leadership and potential leader ship he would stand a good chance of getting in.

I wouldent choose it my self as a rank Tory, but much like when Blair got in and I was curious to see what a laber right winger would do, I am curious to see if Corbyn could actualy do something radicaly diferent.

I dont know why the concern over gun ownership, we are at about the minimum we could possably be but I presonaly wouldn't mind military replica guns banned and can see why that could be considered as a next step.

ATB

What constitutes a military replica though? Does my .308 remington 700 with heavy barrel in a HS stock constitute a replica "sniper rifle"?

 

[Chasey]

in all fairness to the Conservative party they were in power when two of the worst shootings in the uk happened. Very little they could have done under such weight of public opionon. I wouldn’t say they actively targeting shooters they just had to act in light of incidents. Had those incidents never happened it’s unlikely we would have been in the situation we are now.

The difference is Corbyn, Sturgeon et al view shooting as class warfare and will be way more harmful.

Phesent shooting possably but I haven't got a single posh person in my 18 strong syndicate. Most are manual workers