Deer stalking and the use of modern technology

[Ranger22]

You will not be so keen in a few years time when deer numbers drop like a stone because of thermal scopes/imagers.people aren't spending all this money not to use them on deer or is it just be being niave

Very much doubt if this wil be the case. As i have said before, my TI has got me 7 deer I don’t think I would of seen. This is less than 10 % of what i have shot since using the TI. They i my opinion are not the game changer folk think. At least not for deer, foxes maybe if you have NV or a thermal rifle scope

 

[mchughcb]

Very much doubt if this wil be the case. As i have said before, my TI has got me 7 deer I don’t think I would of seen. This is less than 10 % of what i have shot since using the TI. They i my opinion are not the game changer folk think. At least not for deer, foxes maybe if you have NV or a thermal rifle scope

Have not shot a fox at night in five years or over a caller. But shot hundreds over beagles. We shoot them where night vision, thermal, poison are used. Each to their own I say.

 

[tom308w]

Very much doubt if this wil be the case. As i have said before, my TI has got me 7 deer I don’t think I would of seen. This is less than 10 % of what i have shot since using the TI. They i my opinion are not the game changer folk think. At least not for deer, foxes maybe if you have NV or a thermal rifle scope

allanyou stalk in fc land were you know your area .im talking about the land down south were there are lots of bits of land with lots of deer these will get hammered with thermal scopes and ti

 

[stubear]

I suppose it just depends on what you call "modern technology".

Back in the day we used spears and rigged traps, then we invented bows and arrows - Now at that point a bow would be modern technology, so was that fair? And then we moved on to rifles, then telescopic scopes and now we have NV and thermal as the current latest and greatest in affordable cutting edge technology.

The usage of it depends on what you need to get done on your ground. I can really see the benefit of thermal if you're doing population counts or if you are under the cosh to get deer numbers down quickly (EG on a new bit of ground where the numbers are a problem for the land owner). I can also see the benefit of it when trying to recover a carcass in the dark or amongst thick woodland cover.

Like any modern technology its purpose can be abused though, but the same can be levelled at some modern scopes. Ballistic turrets, mega zoom functionality and so on can encourage or enable people to take longer shots than they might otherwise have done with poorer optics. Is that fair? Arguably its a means to an end as long as the shot and the kill are clean and it may arguably be necessary on the ground you manage, but at the same time taking a 400y shot on a deer is hardly "sporting" nor is it really stalking in the true sense of the word so whats the right answer?

Ultimately the technology is there, for better or for worse, and its up to us as ethical hunters to use it or not as we see fit and for the best management of the ground we warden and the species we look after.

The problems start to occur when people are less than ethical or when poachers get their hands on it...

 

[Vipa]

Here's my 2p now I am a member of the thermal brigade...

I started stalking to put free range meat in my freezer and on my table, not for the fun of the chase (although it is nice to get out there... most of the time!) and certainly not for the fun of the kill... I was horrified by the whole abattoir system after watching Kill It, Cook It, Eat It, on TV many years ago and vowed to try and make up as big a % of my family's meat intake from wild, sustainable and healthy sources. To that end I entered the stalking world. I had been shooting since I was a teenager but prior to this it was only on behalf of HM the Queen and at paper.

I am the first to admit I am not the most successful stalker. I know what I'm doing and do what I'm supposed to do but for me, seeing deer is a rarity, perhaps it is just my eyes.. I am colour 'deficient,' perhaps that is a contributing factor. I have been out with pros before now and had them pointing out deer and I just could not see them!

I have been a member of quite a few syndicates, in Scotland, the borders and the north of England. I cannot get out every week and sometimes cannot even get out once a month.

The 2 syndicates I was a member of in Scotland were almost fruitless... 2 deer in 2 years! Now, factor in the 400 mile round trip, accommodation (as it was necessary) and syndicate costs... that was the most expensive meat I have ever eaten. The syndicate I was a member of in the borders, I only saw one deer in the course of the year and that was at 400 yards... never had an opportunity to shoot any.. My syndicate in the north of England is a little better but even there, I have only seen 3 or 4 and shot 2. My mate, who is a member of the same syndicate, seems to get one every time he goes and we follow pretty much the same pattern of behaviour, so, I don't think it's anything to do with skill.

We get calls from the leaseholder quite regularly to get deer on the ground as the forestry company is complaining about deer damage and I'm pretty sure we are going to come up short on the cull target this year.

To cut a long story short, all I want to do is put 2 or 3 deer a year in my freezer. If thermal helps me do that as well as aids the forestry company and leaseholder in meeting cull targets and minimising damage... I really don't see the problem.

As an aside, although I've never lost a runner, I have had quite a few miserable searches of many hours over the years looking for beasts that have not dropped on the spot, hours that could have been saved with the kit I now have!

And tell me, what is the difference between a thermal imager and a well trained pointer.. that nose can see through walls and forest canopy and will 'see' deer, even the most advanced thermal gear won't... Just because it isn't 'traditional' doesn't make it wrong... progress is progress and if it helps me achieve my and my syndicate's aims long let progress reign.

 

[mchughcb]

Well trained pointer can indicate deer long before any line of sight is possible. A well trained tracking dog can find a deer bedded up dead in a thick bush that you cant see through.

 

[75]

I suspect most of the "it's not sporting" comments come from those who haven't used TI. I've used it this season and have seen more deer than I would have without, particularly in very dense woodland but as per Ranger22, I've only shot a very small additional number that I wouldn't have shot without TI.

It's a useful tool but not the total gamechanger some make out.

 

[shortshot]

The badger cull has meant that hundreds of stalkers down South have trialled TI kit and it is a game changer. The widespread adoption of this technology will revolutionise deer control.....but then the evidence keeps telling us deer populations are expanding and we need to kill more.

 

[Lateral]

Well trained pointer can indicate deer long before any line of sight is possible. A well trained tracking dog can find a deer bedded up dead in a thick bush that you cant see through.

Dogs are great, but until someone invents a dog that doesn't need feeding, walking, looking after, and I can just stick in a draw when I don't need it, I'll stick to the thermal !

 

[mchughcb]

You mean something that requires effort other than how big is your credit card limit, well okay then. Each to their own.

 

[Orion]

..........
breach loading
metal cartridge
repeating rifles
waterproofs
smokeless
telescopic sights
binoculars
expanding ammunition
range finders
trail cams
night vision
thermal imaging


My wife isn't going to like it but I will be getting a thermal imager just as soon as I have saved up

Better factor in the cost of a drone if you want to stay ahead of the game.

 

[norma 308]

I’ve stopped at thermal , I have used it and do regularly in pursuit of Reynard but don’t get the same satisfaction when using one for use with deer it’s as simple as that . They are amazing and make my keepering job clinical his knibbs really does not stand anywhere nr the chance he had when I lamped and called . Amazing technology wouldn’t diss those that use it but it ain’t for me when stalking

 

[rodp]

You mean something that requires effort other than how big is your credit card limit, well okay then. Each to their own.

Debit card actually, big difference.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I made a handy leather scope-mounted ammo pouch for my single shot 22 Hornet.

Dangerously cutting edge stuff that gives me sleepless nights.

K

 

[2130martin]

Very much doubt if this wil be the case. As i have said before, my TI has got me 7 deer I don’t think I would of seen. This is less than 10 % of what i have shot since using the TI. They i my opinion are not the game changer folk think. At least not for deer, foxes maybe if you have NV or a thermal rifle scope

Since receiving your new TI a month ago,your cull figures have increaed by 10%,now being the professional deer manager that you are,I would say that is a significant improvement,the TI will be paid back within a very short time,so if I was your manager I would be pleased with the investment and probably see it as a potential game changer once you master it if not already with the results you mentioned.

 

[mchughcb]

I made a handy leather scope-mounted ammo pouch for my single shot 22 Hornet.

Dangerously cutting edge stuff that gives me sleepless nights.

K

Nice. How many rounds does it hold?

 

[Ranger22]

Since receiving your new TI a month ago,your cull figures have increaed by 10%,now being the professional deer manager that you are,I would say that is a significant improvement,the TI will be paid back within a very short time,so if I was your manager I would be pleased with the investment and probably see it as a potential game changer once you master it if not already with the results you mentioned.

Seven deer more is less than 10 % of what i have shot shot. Infact it will be less now as I never got any with the thermal last week. The ones I have had I may not of got them that day without the thermal but i would of got them at some point during the winter. In my opinion it’s still not going the be the big game changer folk think.

 

[Lateral]

Seven deer more is less than 10 % of what i have shot shot. Infact it will be less now as I never got any with the thermal last week. The ones I have had I may not of got them that day without the thermal but i would of got them at some point during the winter. In my opinion it’s still not going the be the big game changer folk think.

I don't quite understand this. You've shot deer due to using a thermal, that you wouldn't have otherwise shot that day. You may, or may not have been able to shoot them on following outings, , but regardless, you're still ahead of where you'd have been without the thermal !

There will clearly be outings where you don't require a thermal to be successful, and others where it's the reason you are. The same will apply, whether you are a professional shooting hundreds of deer a year, or hobby stalkers shooting a handful.

 

[Ranger22]

I don't quite understand this. You've shot deer due to using a thermal, that you wouldn't have otherwise shot that day. You may, or may not have been able to shoot them on following outings, , but regardless, you're still ahead of where you'd have been without the thermal !

There will clearly be outings where you don't require a thermal to be successful, and others where it's the reason you are. The same will apply, whether you are a professional shooting hundreds of deer a year, or hobby stalkers shooting a handful.

if i had been using binos, I would of got the deer I didn’t see at some other point during the winter. I’m ahead at the moment but at the end of the season there won’t be much of a difference to my cull I don’t think.

 

[Heym SR20]

Personally I draw the line anything electronic for spotting and targeting any game animal. You can use natural light either with the naked eye, or concentrated with good lenses, but not light / heat sources that are detected with an electronic chip and then turned into an image. I don't think artificial light sources should be used either as a matter of course.

The argument that technology is needed to complete a cull target doesn't also pass. If you can't meet your cull targets, you either have too much land to manage, or you need additional people out in high seats, or stalking the ground to achieve it.