Buying a rifle (with ammo) via RFD to RFD transfer

[Redleg]

i'm looking to purchase a S/H rifle from a private individual, unfortunately it would mean me doing a round trip of 450 miles to pick it up.
would the seller be able to take the rifle & ammo (after i had paid for it) to his local RFD and have it shipped to my local RFD. Then i could have it entered on my FAC by my local RFD and take it home?

 

[Whitebeard]

No, read your FAC notes, ,it explains quite clearly how a transaction should be conducted

Ian.

 

[7-08Ai]

Yes don’t see why not if the seller takes it to an RFD who will transfer it to his register,then send it to your RFD who will enter it on your cert , Probably not cost effective to get the ammunition though as it will have to be sent separately .

 

[VSS]

As you can see from the other replies, there's a discrepancy between the way it should be done and the way it's usually done!

 

[Redleg]

As you can see from the other replies, there's a discrepancy between the way it should be done and the way it's usually done!

Which is why i have asked the question, as there is guidance and there are notes but they talk about in person.

Now i figure the seller takes rifle into RFD who registers it into his log, seller fills in the notification of transfer with my FAC details and sends off to his local constaburly. RFD sends rifle & ammo to my RFD via authorised courier.My RFD calls me when item is received . I attend shop with my FAC (in person)and my RFD enters all the relevant details on my FAC .
Job done or not?

 

[8x57]

As you can see from the other replies, there's a discrepancy between the way it should be done and the way it's usually done!

I think it would be truer to say was usually done in the past. The correct way to do it is as Whitebeard said in accordance with the instructions on your FAC this involves the actual seller not an intermediary RFD making the entry on the buyers certificate.

 

[Redleg]

I think it would be truer to say was usually done in the past. The correct way to do it is as Whitebeard said in accordance with the instructions on your FAC this involves the actual seller not an intermediary RFD making the entry on the buyers certificate.

But there is nothing in the notes (firearms act) it only states in the guidance the seller "Should complete the tables".
there is no mention of "will or must" and its for guidance only not in the act or legislation.

 

[8x57]

This should explain it https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2014/08/REMOTE-FIREARMS-TRANSACTIONS2.pdf

1) The process for private sales by firearm or shotgun certificate holders.

a) The private seller must make the necessary entries on the buyer’s firearm or shotgun certificate and notify the chief officer of police who issued that certificate. Once the transfer is made on paper, the certificate can be returned to the buyer by post.

b) The seller then sends the firearm to the relevant dealer in the buyers locality to effect the final ‘face-to-face’ transfer required by Section 32(2)(c) of the 1997 Act. The seller may also utilise his own local dealer to send to the buyer’s dealer. (See (c) below)

 

[Redleg]

This should explain it https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2014/08/REMOTE-FIREARMS-TRANSACTIONS2.pdf

In particular 1 a)

Page 3 , 1b "The seller may also utilise his own local dealer to send to the buyers dealer"

It just appears to contradict itself , Why can't it just be "You can do A&B" ?
I will as my local dealer in the morning

 

[8x57]

"They may engage their local dealer to act as a ‘bailee’ (a person to whom property is entrusted for a particular purpose by another; such as the forwarding of goods)." Is the relevant part there.

Redleg I think that you will find that very few RFDs are now prepared to do it the old way.

 

[eddoakley]

As the proper procedure is now being enforced in most areas ( As opposed to the way things have mostly been done in the past) then I find it is fairly common for the buyer to ask their RFD to purchase the item from the seller's RFD hence all of the transactions are in line with the rules.
Seller takes gun to RFD who pays him for it. It belongs to said RFD and is entered into register.
Buyer asks their RFD to purchase gun from 1st RFD.
RFD to RFD transfer is done legitimately.
Buyer purchases gun from their RFD and transfers are notified.

All of the above satisfies the criteria for face to face transactions or for the correct person to complete the certificate.
It requires a friendly and trusting RFD as there is the obvious risk that they will buy a gun that you then don't buy from them.

Old way was much easier.

Edd

 

[Highlandsjohn]

i'm looking to purchase a S/H rifle from a private individual, unfortunately it would mean me doing a round trip of 450 miles to pick it up.
would the seller be able to take the rifle & ammo (after i had paid for it) to his local RFD and have it shipped to my local RFD. Then i could have it entered on my FAC by my local RFD and take it home?

Yes, however, the RFD who receives the firearm has to technically buy it and then transfer it to your FAC, like I did a few weeks ago.
I believe eventually, the method in 8x57's link will prevail. It won't cut out a receiving RFD, but there will ne intermediary RFD translation.
Not sure it's a great idea for the receiver who has no skin in it and all these fac's winging their way over the country.
I expect it will increase f to f sales or the police will tire of replacing those that get lost or stolen, another fk up.john. Sorry. Ed,we were writing at the same time..

 

[8x57]

As you say eddoakly doing it that way does require a friendly and trusting RFD.

I only wonder if the sales goes wrong such as the firearm being not as described or faulty who technically would be legally liable, and would the sale of goods act apply as on paper it has been sold by the RFD and not the original seller? Also would the RFD be liable for VAT or any other other taxes on the sale.

 

[Archer]

As you say eddoakly doing it that way does require a friendly and trusting RFD.

I only wonder if the sales goes wrong such as the firearm being not as described or faulty who technically would be legally liable, and would the sale of goods act apply as on paper it has been sold by the RFD and not the original seller? Also would the RFD be liable for VAT or any other other taxes on the sale.

This is just my take but;
Since 450 mile round trip is about £60 in fuel plus time, how does this stack against transfer fees + waiting time + courier service charges plus time going to and from the receiving RFD?

Surely collecting it yourself is,
Cheaper
More gratifying as you have the rifle asap
And;
If all is not well with the rifle you have saved yourself some money

 

[Cottis]

This is just my take but;
Since 450 mile round trip is about £60 in fuel plus time, how does this stack against transfer fees + waiting time + courier service charges plus time going to and from the receiving RFD?

Surely collecting it yourself is,
Cheaper
More gratifying as you have the rifle asap
And;
If all is not well with the rifle you have saved yourself some money

Yep, this the tried and tested, super old fashioned way of doing it and the route I would take every time. See the thread about a guy getting ripped off by some knob with rose tinted specs.

Some fuel (probably covered by not paying RFD fees) and half a day gives you the peace of mind that the item you are buying is as described.

 

[Redleg]

This is just my take but;
Since 450 mile round trip is about £60 in fuel plus time, how does this stack against transfer fees + waiting time + courier service charges plus time going to and from the receiving RFD?

Surely collecting it yourself is,
Cheaper
More gratifying as you have the rifle asap
And;
If all is not well with the rifle you have saved yourself some money

I have thought about this, but been working 6 days a week since new year and only getting the odd day off here and There, then the thought of spending 6 hours driving isn't that appealing. I might have to consider it though.

 

[Roedeer 1962]

Have a weekend away with the MRS two for the price of one

 

[Hornet 6]

If it is to be transferred legally by RFD it means one RFD had to buy it, and then sell it, 2nd RFD has to buy it, and then sell it.
Those RFD's are going to want (and deserve) a profit on the deal, as well as having to sort the VAT issue out.
Just get in the car and go collect it, if time, money or lack of enthusiasm for the drive is an issue then let it go.

Neil.

 

[JTO]

Make sure that the price and condition is OK. Nothing worse for a buyer than traveling a long way for nothing, and nothing worse for a seller than a buyer turning up and then haggling about the price.

 

[Archer]

1/If it is to be transferred legally by RFD it means one red had to buy it, and then sell it, 2nd ford has to buy it, and then sell it.
Those RFD's are going to want (and deserve) a profit on the deal, as well as having to sort the VAT issue out.

2/Just get in the car and go collect it, if time, money or lack of enthusiasm for the drive is an issue then let it go.

Neil.

1/ I agree 100%

2/ My preferred choice would be to collect it (but I do fully understand what OP says in#16)