DMQ Ban Use of Thermal for Level 2

[Fisheruk100]

Why bother with the DMQ anyway?

 

[25 Sharps]

I can only see the reasons recreational deer stalker using them being:
a. Laziness
b. The main element of their experience is shooting/killing

my response would be, a. Find another hobby - b. Go to the shooting range instead.

the use of thermal will strengthen the case for anti’s and hasten further gun regulation as it makes it look like stalkers are only interested in finding a easy kill. The usage and spreading of that technology will make for a quicker end to private and recreational deerstalking in that with very low deer populations, the police might make it a stick to beat you with in saying you don’t have a good reason for gun ownership.

as David Attenborough says...”they are singing the song of their own demise”

Do you really think they aid stalking that much? I don't!

Ok, in very close woodland they will allow you to spot deer more easily, the deer still have the advantage in this ground I would say, they can still move or melt away pretty quickly.

In the open field not much difference whether you use thermal or not, they'll still just as likely see you before you see them.

You still need to know what you're doing to make the most of that little head start the thermal gives you over bin's.

If you think this then you genuinely believe that the thermal is a greater advantage to the stalker than having telescopic sights and accurate modern rifles because in general deer numbers have increased since these became widely and readily available.....

As for the death of private stalking, that will be greed not technology.

 

[25 Sharps]

Because a lot of us do pest and predator control at night, for me the deer is a sideline to those things.

Althoigh I do those things well to be able to stalk the deer. So I guess the pest and predator is the (time consuming) sideline

 

[User00003]

Do you really think they aid stalking that much? I don't!

Ok, in very close woodland they will allow you to spot deer more easily, the deer still have the advantage in this ground I would say, they can still move or melt away pretty quickly.

In the open field not much difference whether you use thermal or not, they'll still just as likely see you before you see them.

You still need to know what you're doing to make the most of that little head start the thermal gives you over bin's.

If you think this then you genuinely believe that the thermal is a greater advantage to the stalker than having telescopic sights and accurate modern rifles because in general deer numbers have increased since these became widely and readily available.....

As for the death of private stalking, that will be greed not technology.

greed, yes, not a good thing for the sport, fully agree! However, as for binos, don’t know about others but I do not use them for spotting deer, just for identifying sex and whether a cull animal or not, so I don’t agree on that point.

 

[25 Sharps]

greed, yes, not a good thing for the sport, fully agree! However, as for binos, don’t know about others but I do not use them for spotting deer, just for identifying sex and whether a cull animal or not, so I don’t agree on that point.

So what about thermals being a bigger advantage than telescopic sights combined with modern accurate rifles and ammunition, Would you say that was the case? As that's the implication if thermals and their use is going to strip the land of deer and remove our good reason.

 

[zambezi]

... think as a tool to help locate a deer it is extremely useful and requires no less skill. You still need to identify the sex, get to within a safe place and a sensible range that goes with your own ability.

Tend to agree. But I imagine what DMQ are looking to do is inculcate a primary dependence on good stalking practise. A well known Somerset deer manager once told me that he has had a client come out on a stalk with a thermal imager and because it was glued to his eye for most of the time, he walked past a number of Fallow in plain view to the naked eye. A slavish dependence on the things is folly. As is blanket exclusion. The AWs have scope to feedback on many aspects of candidate performance. Would it not be wiser to rely on their critique of appropriate usage?

 

[Kalahari]

One thing against changing the rules is it will bring in a two level DSC2. This will lead to "Did you do the real DSC2 or get helped by the new technology" question. Whole new can of worms time! No change could be the real solution.

David.

 

[Odders]

I'm no expert in this field, but do people employed or contracted by FC to carry out deer culling have to be DMQ qualified?
If so, and FC permits (probably actively encourages) the use of thermal spotters, then it seems to me that part of their DMQ examination should include a section where the candidate should be able to demonstrate their ability to use a thermal spotter correctly.

Cheers

Bruce

This.

 

[rem284]

Thermal spotter are a very useful tool, for those who are culling deer on a professional bases. If the recreational stalker wishes to use one that is up to him to decide. DMQ qualifications are required for a lot of FC jobs/contracts/leases. Some of private land owners also ask for it. I can understand the fact that ability to hone and prove the skills needed to find deer, stalk and shoot deer etc without the aid of a thermal. However the person needing to put deer in the larder it is useful that most would not like to be without. Just like professional chainsaw operators would not like to be without the chainsaw and opt to use a crosscut and axe just to prove they have skill

 

[reloader54]

how many people drive like they did on the day they passed the driving test?

sometimes you have to do what's needed at the time.
other times you have a wider choice.

 

[countrryboy]

Playing devils avdvocate here then

I and most folk could probably accept them as a useful tool for roughly locating deer (more so on a pro level) as u still need to stalk into them, and esp so if u have a high cull to achieve. (Ideally u could argue there should be more stalkers if under pressure to achieve cull, but not really going to happen nowadys. No doubt the lamp has cost many rangers there jobs in scotland over the last few decades)

So would a drone with thermal not also just be a 'useful tool', surely it is only doing the exact same roughly locating deer, except it can see round corners over hills etc whereas ur thermal will need direct line of sight. U still have to stalk into them just the same

If u came to a crossroads where various rides/burns all meet u could send the drone up them to save u walking up to likely places with no deer

 

[rem284]

you can only carry so much. you can only fit so much in a pickup, battery life and expense of a drone might be questioned against efficiency. I cannot see us ever shooting all the deer out nor would anyone want too. Sometimes you can shoot deer without having to "stalk in"

 

[jimbo1984]

Why bother with the DMQ anyway?

A very good question that most are too blinkered / stupid to ask ....

 

[countrryboy]

you can only carry so much. you can only fit so much in a pickup, battery life and expense of a drone might be questioned against efficiency. I cannot see us ever shooting all the deer out nor would anyone want too. Sometimes you can shoot deer without having to "stalk in"

I realise that, but more thinking ur about to leave ur pick up for a stalk on foot after touring the likely places in ur van, u might have an option or 2,3 or 4+ directions/rides/burns to follow from the 1 car park.
I can't really see anyone carrying 1 on foot as they stalk.

U could have the drone in the back of pick up and buzz it up a few hundred m's each way or over tall standing timber to wide rides that might take 10+mins to walk into.
When it comes down to the last 1hr at evening it could be the difference between success and failure.


I just worry the younger/newer generation of stalkers will grow up completely dependant on modern technology and will lose a lot of the skills the old timers have

 

[reloader54]

greed, yes, not a good thing for the sport, fully agree! However, as for binos, don’t know about others but I do not use them for spotting deer, just for identifying sex .

"lots of doggers your way?"

 

[slider]

Why bother with the DMQ anyway?

Not that sh!'te again. Boring ..........

 

[jimbo1984]

Not that sh!'te again. Boring ..........

I rest my case ....

 

[nun_hunter]

I rest my case ....

No there have been many threads on the pros and cons of the various qualifications. If someone wants to know why to bother then go and read them. If you can find places to shoot without qualifications then happy days but others can't or choose to shoot at places where qualifications are necessary, it doesn't mean they are stupid or blinkered just that they will do what's necessary for them.

 

[rem284]

I realise that, but more thinking ur about to leave ur pick up for a stalk on foot after touring the likely places in ur van, u might have an option or 2,3 or 4+ directions/rides/burns to follow from the 1 car park.
I can't really see anyone carrying 1 on foot as they stalk.

U could have the drone in the back of pick up and buzz it up a few hundred m's each way or over tall standing timber to wide rides that might take 10+mins to walk into.
When it comes down to the last 1hr at evening it could be the difference between success and failure.

Yes it could be useful but I have dogs in the pickup(separate compartment from deer) The tub is for deer. So I need room form capstan winch, rifle, binos etc so just no room for drone or much else for that matter.

 

[mchughcb]

Not sure where the concept that one person could or should be responsible for shooting thousands of deer then complain about unrealistic targets then start to use every tecnologu they can afford to achieve those targets onlyhave that technology banned. Either by moral majority or legislation.

Anyway im off on a hound hunt.