BASC statement on Home Office proposals

[kes]

Political pressure and lobbying is a significantly cheaper and largely more effective route when dealing with challenges to law with no case law associated with them.

Challenge a law in the high court and watch the bills run into 7-8 figures. Who is going to pay for that?
Its also a very visible statement of intent that tends to raise the hackles of the opposition...leading to legal arms race and bigger bills



That said, anything firearms related is a turd of a topic no self respecting, career minded politician wants to hang his career on!
So who do you lobby!?

I'm afraid I am too simple minded. If this were the first issue I would agree with your logic. However, as you know it isnt. It isnt anywhere near the first. If one has a prior agreement and then, in the face of contrary Government Policy (HO Guidance) you are asked to pay then how much better a shot at the bad guys are we going to get - all this in writing and clear contravention ? I wouldnt care about their view of the shooting community and I despise politics but to toady to someone who has and is playing you false, with almost perfect precedent and the law apparently on your side, and undoubtedly right on your side, when is anyone going to risk it ?
Whose money is it, who paid it and for what purpose, even one of these groups says it sits at the highest tables. I dislike dishonesty with a vengeance.
I would suggest WHEN someone shows some backbone, as with the buzard cull v NE they sit back and take notice - I would have argued that was considerably more speculative and lobbying would have gained nothing whatsoever. SO why will it work now.
Yours - fuming.

 

[User00006]

I am afraid "guidance" is merely that; it has no force in law, and in any event can be changed as the powers that be see fit. The law says the chief constable is entitled to make enquiries into a person's fitness.

The buzzard case was very different; NE had been applying the law in an arbitrary and discriminatory manner. The NGO received an expert opinion that they had a good chance of showing this, so they went out and raised the money and mounted a legal challenge. Good on them. (It would be churlish to question whether the outcome has been of any real benefit to the gamekeeping profession as a whole. It was good for morale, at any rate.)

On medical fees, if you really think you know better than the QC in question, then you are free to go ahead and mount a crowdfunder and go to court. Judging by the buzzard case, you might need to raise more than £100k - and be prepared to pay the same again in the other side's costs if you lose.

 

[kes]

I am afraid "guidance" is merely that; it has no force in law, and in any event can be changed as the powers that be see fit. The law says the chief constable is entitled to make enquiries into a person's fitness.

The buzzard case was very different; NE had been applying the law in an arbitrary and discriminatory manner. The NGO received an expert opinion that they had a good chance of showing this, so they went out and raised the money and mounted a legal challenge. Good on them. (It would be churlish to question whether the outcome has been of any real benefit to the gamekeeping profession as a whole. It was good for morale, at any rate.)

On medical fees, if you really think you know better than the QC in question, then you are free to go ahead and mount a crowdfunder and go to court. Judging by the buzzard case, you might need to raise more than £100k - and be prepared to pay the same again in the other side's costs if you lose.

With at least one shooting Org with £9M reserves and the crowd funding option for others (buzard case), I dont see why this should not be a realistic option, given the circumstances. Lobbying is so much easier and, makes no point, makes no-one sit up.
Despite your negativity concerning precedent (which I doubt you have read) your 'standard approved view' will lead to certain failure - watch and see.
Also, if there was no chance, why has the right to legal action been reserved - just bluff and bluster?


The precedent I referred to was design guidance notes issued by a met council and not followed by them- not applying it led them to lose their case - have a look.
Why issue Guidance if you can pick and choose what you think you might apply or in this case invent key elements- 'off piste' entirely - see what the judge said in reviewing the case and see if you would be so ready to rubbish the chance !
Dont bother to reply we always disagree and I dont wish to be rude as you have been but thank you for making your point.

 

[flytie]

Shooting, and gun ownership, is suffering from a death by a thousand cuts. The general public do not understand countryside management and are frightened by gun owners, much the same can be said of the police. The ignorance of anything firearms related by the average policeman is astounding and the level of ignorance by civilian employees of the police is even more profound. The gun club I belong to decided to do something about this and invited the Gloucestershire Firearms Department to our range to try everything from shotguns, black powder pistols and rifles through to rim-fire and centre-fire rifles, everything was there for them to try. It was explained to them about the service rifle competitions and long range events that our members travel to, as well as the competitions that we run at our range.

To say that it was a revelation to these folks would be an understatement, they enjoyed themselves and went away much better informed about shooting and, most importantly, with a much higher opinion of shooters than they had previously had, now realising why some people wanted such various and strange calibres.

I sometimes wonder why our so called shooting organisations do not employ some of their valuable time organising such events.

I would dearly love to see a shooting organisation stand up for shooters in a more pro-active way as, from what we have seen in the recent past, all the lobbying and toadying in the world has achieved very little, if anything. But I have little hope of such an outcome, they will not risk their sinecures by such a brave course of action.

In the world we live in my advice to any shooter is to enjoy it while you can, I cannot see it lasting in its present form if no one will actually risk anything to protect the sport.

Sadly yours, Simon.

PS: On a happier note my co-terminus certificates were renewed more than a month early and despite my refusal to pay my Dr what I thought was a most unreasonable £118.80.

 

[kes]

Nothing on any shooting org website as a 'policy update' or anything else. For example one has had nothing new since 25May. Obviously not a 'key issue' for anyone anymore now that comment has died down.

 

[jimbo1984]

Nothing on any shooting org website as a 'policy update' or anything else. For example one has had nothing new since 25May. Obviously not a 'key issue' for anyone anymore now that comment has died down.

Did you really expect anything ?

 

[User00025]

C'mon now you're both "avin a larf" aint ya.

 

[kes]

Shouldnt everyone, preferably members first, expect something ?
For those who shoot its a sad day when the silence is Sooooooo deafening.
I hope they are all ashamed of themselves - is this protecting shooting sports ? I think not.

The British Shooting Sports Council (BSSC) (the group BASC et al say they are working through), last issued a press notice in 2016, - British Shooting Sports Council Policing and Crime Bill

 

[reloader54]

all joking aside my guess would be things in general are to say the least "hectic" in government at the present time,,, give it a few more months and there'll be nobody left to discuss anything. on the up side the lunches will be a lot cheaper.

 

[finnbear270]

all joking aside my guess would be things in general are to say the least "hectic" in government at the present time,,, give it a few more months and there'll be nobody left to discuss anything. on the up side the lunches will be a lot cheaper.

Trouble is, shooters in general won't be invited to any lunches.

 

[reloader54]

Trouble is, shooters in general won't be invited to any lunches.

I resemble that remark,

 

[kes]

Anything new from any source on the medical issue, perhaps everyone is away on hols. The inactivity is stultifying.

 

[reloader54]

I think their still letting the gubment know which guns to include in the coming legislation.

 

[Woodsmoke]

The inactivity is stultifying

Ah yes, but it's robust, unwavering, and determined inactivity, don't forget?

 

[kes]

Ah yes, but it's robust, unwavering, and determined inactivity, don't forget?

You are correct. Sorry, I forgot the hype !

 

[jimbo1984]

Where are all the die hard basc supporters now ???

 

[potshotpat]

Where are all the die hard basc supporters now ???

I've just paid my subs this week, i'm going for a lie down in a dark room.

 

[jimbo1984]

I've just paid my subs this week, i'm going for a lie down in a dark room.

I'm sorry to hear that .......:

 

[timbrayford]

Where are all the die hard basc supporters now ???

So what are you personally doing about the HO proposals?

 

[jimbo1984]

Wrote to my mp and my shooting org so currently a lot more than basc who are paid to lobby for us ... and what about you ?

i suppose the real difference is I'm not paid millions to try and safeguard our sport whereas your beloved basc is and is making zero effort