BASC issues statement in response to RSPB hen harrier report

[Monarch Country Products]

A rare breakout of common sense across Parliament!

Well done to all organizations; I follow the Moorland Association on FB and their posts over the last few weeks in particular have been superb & factual.

 

[Liveonce]

hopefully all is well that ends well but the minister only stated the government was not looking to ban grouse shooting but did not embellish it by stating no intention to bring in licencing like in Scotland or rule out the change in burning from 40cm to 30cm.

Did state they would keep the pledge to ban trail hunting.

 

[countrryboy]

I would love to see a full biodiversity study done on Langholm Moor now it's been in the hands of the community with no moorland management since 2021, it already has studies as a managed moor now would be a good time to do a full comparison.

Ive long said that.
I emailed a few orgs about it as soon as it was goung to stop.
Same with Ilkley moor an other very high profile moor that shoiting stopped on.
Not just fuana but a flora too. A decent botanical study showing how heather becomes more dominant as is gets older and outcompeats most otger species.
Then if it gets beetled will likely turn to molina or bracken in sime places.

But Langholm really should be studied as so extensively studied before and u have already seen the decline after the JRG study.
Hh pairs fell from 28 to 2.

Will be even more dramatic this time as they now want to rewild the moor so effectively vanadalising prime HH habitat.
Just madness that passes for 'conservarion' in this country.

 

[countrryboy]

Yes it is strange how times change and you were a great supporter and now you are not and hopefully one day you will be again - I will keep trying to do my best for what it's worth.

Sadly it is very strange.
Ive always been a very firm believer in basc in the past.
The potential is absolutely huge but never really does much.
I generally just try to ignore basc threads ( althou sometimes i stupidly click 1 like this time ) as they just furstrate and disapoint me so much.


The reason i left was over lead shot, not the actual decision itself ( while i dont agree, esp on dry land, i can understand it, sort off)
(When i done my dissertation on lead shot 30 year ago i sieved Ts of stinking wet sh#tty silt from well shot duck ponds ( 1 could shoot 200 per drive) never found a single lead pellet.)

But the way it was handled, such a massive decision for basc to do a full sudden 180 from no science no change.
It was as if the keystone cops handled the press release after 20 pints of beer.
They were shocked by members reactions, shocked by gun trades reactions.
Im only surprised the sun goung down at night and rising the next morning never shocked them.
Shocked by everything that a blind man on a galloping horse could see/forsee.
The whole thing was a debacle.
Adding to refusing to put a member on the LAG because they has JS there.
The CA really pulled our arses out the fire that time.

That was the final straw for me, if u can handle such a massive u turn decision so so badly.
How are they handling every day normal decisions?
Wot are they not seeing/pre-empting?
WJ are fairly predictable wot their going after.
In some cases their not as clever as they think they are, theirs a few achillies heels they havnae targeted yet which im amazed they havnae.
Unless theyre keeping their powder dry to use it when it will do most damage. ( which could be possible)

Doesnae bode well or fill u with confidence.

Really cant ever see a day i rejoin basc.
Must admit actually considering joining the Moorland Assoc, when u see all the good work they do.
Sadly i just dont get the time to get out on the moors the way i used too.

1 thing i will say if grouse shooting goes, something that is sustainable shokting a native bird, pheasants and wild fowling ( fowling may be natice birds but in many cases over wintering so their is nothing u can do to increase the population, ur at other countries mercy) will fall very quickly after.
So even if u have no interest in grouse shooting, it is easily defendable.
Other shooting types far less so

 

[@theroedeerguy]

The most likely place for a HH tracker to fail is on a managed grouse moor as that is their favoured habitat and varied prey is available. Undoubtedly there is still persecution, but not on any grand scale.

Tracking devices do fail, they are not the foolproof kit the RSPB proclaim, just ask any falconer using similar technology. Also, if the 70% first year mortality rates still prevail on tracked HH then why do the RSPB not find this huge percentage ….? Strange huh!

Tracking devices do malfunction, however I did see a presentation from the RSPB which referenced failure data for the same type of tag being considerably greater in the UK compared to the same tag being used in the USA.

The uncomfortable fact remains that unfortunately there remains to be a minority within the gamekeeping community who are continuing to persecute raptors and risk the reputation of the whole industry.

A list of estates in Scotland which are currently subject to general license restrictions can be found below.

General licences for birds - restrictions

General licences cover relatively common situations where there’s unlikely to be any significant conservation impact. Framework for implementing restrictions and decision notices.

www.nature.scot

Decisions to impose a restriction will only be based on evidence received from Police Scotland of an offence under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 [“the 1981 Act”] having been committed in relation to wild birds and/or where the terms of General Licences were not being complied with. NatureScot has agreed an Information Sharing Protocol (ISP) with Police Scotland that allow the Police to pass on such evidence to NatureScot.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Sadly it is very strange.
Ive always been a very firm believer in basc in the past.
The potential is absolutely huge but never really does much.
I generally just try to ignore basc threads ( althou sometimes i stupidly click 1 like this time ) as they just furstrate and disapoint me so much.


The reason i left was over lead shot, not the actual decision itself ( while i dont agree, esp on dry land, i can understand it, sort off)
(When i done my dissertation on lead shot 30 year ago i sieved Ts of stinking wet sh#tty silt from well shot duck ponds ( 1 could shoot 200 per drive) never found a single lead pellet.)

But the way it was handled, such a massive decision for basc to do a full sudden 180 from no science no change.
It was as if the keystone cops handled the press release after 20 pints of beer.
They were shocked by members reactions, shocked by gun trades reactions.
Im only surprised the sun goung down at night and rising the next morning never shocked them.
Shocked by everything that a blind man on a galloping horse could see/forsee.
The whole thing was a debacle.
Adding to refusing to put a member on the LAG because they has JS there.
The CA really pulled our arses out the fire that time.

That was the final straw for me, if u can handle such a massive u turn decision so so badly.
How are they handling every day normal decisions?
Wot are they not seeing/pre-empting?
WJ are fairly predictable wot their going after.
In some cases their not as clever as they think they are, theirs a few achillies heels they havnae targeted yet which im amazed they havnae.
Unless theyre keeping their powder dry to use it when it will do most damage. ( which could be possible)

Doesnae bode well or fill u with confidence.

Really cant ever see a day i rejoin basc.
Must admit actually considering joining the Moorland Assoc, when u see all the good work they do.
Sadly i just dont get the time to get out on the moors the way i used too.

1 thing i will say if grouse shooting goes, something that is sustainable shokting a native bird, pheasants and wild fowling ( fowling may be natice birds but in many cases over wintering so their is nothing u can do to increase the population, ur at other countries mercy) will fall very quickly after.
So even if u have no interest in grouse shooting, it is easily defendable.
Other shooting types far less so

It is a pity you feel like that as it was nine organisations that made the voluntary transition announcement in February 2020 and that included the CA and Moorland Association whom you mention above. So why single out BASC? As regards BASC its unfair to make a sweeping statement that they don't do much - here is the latest example:

Sustainable grouse shooting secures cross-party backing

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[Conor O'Gorman]

The uncomfortable fact remains that unfortunately there remains to be a minority within the gamekeeping community who are continuing to persecute raptors and risk the reputation of the whole industry.

Yes, not only reputational damage but ammunition for those calling for more restrictions on shooting, which resulted in the licensing of grouse shooting in Scotland last year, after decades of persecution and warning after warning ignored - the killing continued. Cases of persecution in England are driving calls for more restrictions there also, here is the latest from the RSPB:

https://www.rspb.org.uk/whats-happening/news/westminster-driven-grouse-shooting-debate

 

[Heym SR20]

I was a conversation the other with a stalker up in the North West corner of Scotland. He commented that since the reintroduction of Sea Eagles numbers of the lesser birds of prey have fallen quite dramatically. He has observed Sea Eagles attacking and killing Golden Eagles, Ospreys, Buzzards etc.

Predators generally will not tolerate lesser predators in the domain, especially if they are competing for similar food.

He also noted that given all the very heavy deer culling there is now very little food from deer gralloch and winter die off to support the large birds of prey through the tough winters.

 

[countrryboy]

I was a conversation the other with a stalker up in the North West corner of Scotland. He commented that since the reintroduction of Sea Eagles numbers of the lesser birds of prey have fallen quite dramatically. He has observed Sea Eagles attacking and killing Golden Eagles, Ospreys, Buzzards etc.

Predators generally will not tolerate lesser predators in the domain, especially if they are competing for similar food.

He also noted that given all the very heavy deer culling there is now very little food from deer gralloch and winter die off to support the large birds of prey through the tough winters.

I mind a few years ago ( could be going on 10 now)
A pair of Eagle owls decided to nest on a famous nature resrve.
Ironically they disappered without trace never to be seen again within the 1st week.

Probably the rarest BoP in uk, but also attacks and kills HHs.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I mind a few years ago ( could be going on 10 now)
A pair of Eagle owls decided to nest on a famous nature resrve.
Ironically they disappered without trace never to be seen again within the 1st week.

Probably the rarest BoP in uk, but also attacks and kills HHs.

Eagle owls aside will you be replying to my comments above?