Budget 'high seat' stalking scope for short range/low light

[Cottis]

I wouldn't use any of those scope for stalking if you already have one on a rifle that is ready to go. They will simply not be much (or at all) of an upgrade on what is atop the rifle at the moment.

I have a Diamondback HP on a little rimfire for bunnies. That is the supposedly better version than the one you mention. It is fine in decent light for rabbits and mechanically is sound but it aint no stalking scope. It is quite poor at last light IMO. I would never put it on a stalking rifle when you might need to shoot a deer on a dark background in failing light. It will let you down.

Don't take shortcuts with Optics. Use what you have until you have saved at least 400quid and then buy something like a 3-16x42 Baby STAC or find a SH Delta Titanium or similar scope with proper optical performance that will offer you a mag range that is useful and will provide you with all you need for a long time.

 

[Highlandsjohn]

And why not mate. I thought I'd sometime ago read that we in the UK are not allowed to shoot at steel gongs for H&S reasons? Maybe Ive got that wrong, or is that just at official ranges? Genuinely interested

Good luck with your new rifle Shep.Steer clear of the gongs

 

[Sheprador1973]

Good luck with your new rifle Shep.Steer clear of the gongs

Speechless John!

 

[Sheprador1973]

I wouldn't use any of those scope for stalking if you already have one on a rifle that is ready to go. They will simply not be much (or at all) of an upgrade on what is atop the rifle at the moment.

I have a Diamondback HP on a little rimfire for bunnies. That is the supposedly better version than the one you mention. It is fine in decent light for rabbits and mechanically is sound but it aint no stalking scope. It is quite poor at last light IMO. I would never put it on a stalking rifle when you might need to shoot a deer on a dark background in failing light. It will let you down.

Don't take shortcuts with Optics. Use what you have until you have saved at least 400quid and then buy something like a 3-16x42 Baby STAC or find a SH Delta Titanium or similar scope with proper optical performance that will offer you a mag range that is useful and will provide you with all you need for a long time.

Point taken Cottis and thanks. Not so much of an issue of upgrading for now...more about finding something that will 'do for now'. That choice will never be prefect or long lasting granted. As you suggest, that may well be the Simmons the rifle comes with so will wait and see. If not I have been given some useful advice already. Many thanks.

 

[Sash]

Its also got a fairly narrow 42mm (I think) objective lens.

42mm is NOT a “fairly narrow” objective: its a totally standard diameter, and there are probably thousands of deer shot every year in the UK using scopes of that size!

Its worth thinking more broadly: 40/42mm is probably THE standard objective for serious birdwatching binoculars, and any decent 8x40/10x40 binos will give an excelent field of view and good low light performance.

I started my stalking career with a good (Liesenfeld) 8x56 scope: terrific low light performance, and good field of view. But it (and the high mounts it needed) were/are heavy: I shaved 6oz/150g off the weight of my setup by switching to a 3-9x40, and have never regretted it. (I did the same and a bit more moving from a Wildcat moderator to a DPT; another good move).

So please don’t write off 40/42mm objectives: if deer are your quarry, they work just fine. And if you are ever going to shoot unsupported, you will bless having a lighter scope!

 

[big ears]

+1 with above. 6x42 S&B SH fits your OP and will work well when you get out of he high seat and do some stalking.

BE

 

[hendrix's rifle]

I use a weaver grand slam? 2-10 on my 308 and no issues, worth a look at. Out of the list i would personally go for the falcon, great scopes and if you want to extend ranges the turrets are good too. My logic is, if it's too dark to shoot it's too dark to drag them back to the car and gralloch them. There's always another day to go shooting so I wouldn't spend thousands of pounds on the last few minutes of light when there's tomorrow

 

[takbok]

6x will be perfect for the kind of close range 50m hunting you're doing. You shouldn't need a lower magnification if you're shooting from a highseat either.

I prefer my scopes to not be too bulky so I'd never have an objective bigger than 44mm.

Keep the scope that it comes with. It will most likely be perfectly adequate for your needs.

 

[Sheprador1973]

42mm is NOT a “fairly narrow” objective: its a totally standard diameter, and there are probably thousands of deer shot every year in the UK using scopes of that size!

Its worth thinking more broadly: 40/42mm is probably THE standard objective for serious birdwatching binoculars, and any decent 8x40/10x40 binos will give an excelent field of view and good low light performance.

I started my stalking career with a good (Liesenfeld) 8x56 scope: terrific low light performance, and good field of view. But it (and the high mounts it needed) were/are heavy: I shaved 6oz/150g off the weight of my setup by switching to a 3-9x40, and have never regretted it. (I did the same and a bit more moving from a Wildcat moderator to a DPT; another good move).

So please don’t write off 40/42mm objectives: if deer are your quarry, they work just fine. And if you are ever going to shoot unsupported, you will bless having a lighter scope!

Understood Sash. Tbh, and I realise I forgot to mention it, my only issue with the scope on the gun (apart from querying the minimum mag) is it has an adjustable objective lens. Don't know about you but I hate those things. Last thing I reckon I need to be doing pre shot is raising my head and leaning forward to get the thing in focus.

Incidentally, when it comes to parallax adjustment what are your thoughts for a close range scope? My Hawke has SF which is fine to use, but I'm guessing all quality fixed mag scopes have no adjustment? Don't need them? I figure the simpler the better...

 

[takbok]

Adjustable objective just means it has parallax adjustment. Many high end scopes have this (can also be an adjuster opposite windage adjuster. You don't need to adjust this every time - just set it at around 100m and forget it - all the scopes without parallax adjustment are set to 100 yards or thereabouts.

 

[Sheprador1973]

Adjustable objective just means it has parallax adjustment. Many high end scopes have this (can also be an adjuster opposite windage adjuster. You don't need to adjust this every time - just set it at around 100m and forget it - all the scopes without parallax adjustment are set to 100 yards or thereabouts.

What I thought thanks Takbok. So not necessary at short range for stalking? And if the scope has it just set & forget yeah? I'll have a play around on Wednesday thanks.

 

[takbok]

What I thought thanks Takbok. So not necessary at short range for stalking? And if the scope has it just set & forget yeah? I'll have a play around on Wednesday thanks.

No, not at all necessary for stalking ranges. I shoot most of my deer at around 50m, either with a 6x42 (no parallax etc) or 4-16x44 (set on 6-8x and parallax set at 110 yards) depending on which rifle I'm using.

 

[Sheprador1973]

I use a weaver grand slam? 2-10 on my 308 and no issues, worth a look at. Out of the list i would personally go for the falcon, great scopes and if you want to extend ranges the turrets are good too. My logic is, if it's too dark to shoot it's too dark to drag them back to the car and gralloch them. There's always another day to go shooting so I wouldn't spend thousands of pounds on the last few minutes of light when there's tomorrow

Despite its comparable size/weight i do like the Falcon and will almost certainly put one on the .223 that I hope to eventually get. Seems like the most flexible option and could just be set at the recommended 6x mag for most of the time but powered up for longer field shots or the range (eventually). Decent light gathering with the 56mm? (obviously not expecting Swaro/S&B performance). Hmmm...

 

[John_R]

Don't forget that at the X6 end of the scale you have far greater depth of field. Therefore the adjustment of the AO is far more forgiving anyway. Just set it at whatever range you encounter the most and leave it.

 

[Sheprador1973]

Don't forget that at the X6 end of the scale you have far greater depth of field. Therefore the adjustment of the AO is far more forgiving anyway. Just set it at whatever range you encounter the most and leave it.

This is where I'm getting confused John. On my side focus scope you have to use it to erm focus the image clearly. If I were to leave that set at an arbitrary distance I'd really struggle to shoot it. IS the AO ring different then? What I mean is if its set at 100yards and I encounter a target at 30, won't it be hopelessly out of focus? maybe I'm getting focus and parallax confused?

 

[John_R]

Front AO and side focus are both dealing with parallax.

Just try your existing side focus at both max and min magnification and you will see what I mean by depth of field.

DOF refers to the range of distance over which a subject will appear to be in sharp focus through any optical train. Same on a camera as it is on a scope for the purposes of this discussion.

Bottom line anyway should be to try the scope you are getting with the rifle and plan future purchases in a more leisurely fashion.

 

[Cottis]

Adj Objective or Side Focus do the same thing. They bring the sight picture in to focus but more importantly, it removes parallax error. I cannot be bothered to explain it because the footie and cricket is on but the long and short of it is that at the sort of distances you are talking about, I would set the AO or Side Focus at a point whereby you get a clear picture at around the 60yd mark. That will be a perfectly good picture either at 30 or 100yds and the parallax will have barely any effect at that range, especially given the size of the target you will be shooting.

You should always take time to test a scope, make it stable on a bipod with a rear rest or such, and set the parallax at different ranges and then set your eye behind the ocular and move it around the eyebox slightly whilst the whole setup is totally static. If the scope is free from the effect of parallax, you should be able to move your eye up or down or laterally slightly and not see the centre of the cross hair move from the POA. Then set the parallax either side of perfection slightly (at ranges where 30yds and 100yds would give a perfect sight picture) and repeat the test. You will see the cross hairs move ever so slightly. The effect of this would be that unless you position your shoulder, cheek and eye in the same place every time, you might be aiming at a slightly different spot on the target each time, despite having the effect of thinking you are aiming at the same spot. Hard to explain but the long and short of it is that at 50yd deer ranges, don't lose your **** over it.

Set your scope at 60yds give or take, go shoot deer, save your pennies and wait for a nice crystal scope to come up for sale around the 400-600quid mark. If you do leave the high seat and need to take shots at further ranges, then maybe adjusting the focus will assist but it in the heat of the moment, the benefits are minimal. I use mine but mainly when absolute precision shooting on targets when I am aiming literally as small as possible. For all other shooting, point, shoot and go collect the animal.

 

[Sheprador1973]

Adj Objective or Side Focus do the same thing. They bring the sight picture in to focus but more importantly, it removes parallax error. I cannot be bothered to explain it because the footie and cricket is on but the long and short of it is that at the sort of distances you are talking about, I would set the AO or Side Focus at a point whereby you get a clear picture at around the 60yd mark. That will be a perfectly good picture either at 30 or 100yds and the parallax will have barely any effect at that range, especially given the size of the target you will be shooting.

You should always take time to test a scope, make it stable on a bipod with a rear rest or such, and set the parallax at different ranges and then set your eye behind the ocular and move it around the eyebox slightly whilst the whole setup is totally static. If the scope is free from the effect of parallax, you should be able to move your eye up or down or laterally slightly and not see the centre of the cross hair move from the POA. Then set the parallax either side of perfection slightly (at ranges where 30yds and 100yds would give a perfect sight picture) and repeat the test. You will see the cross hairs move ever so slightly. The effect of this would be that unless you position your shoulder, cheek and eye in the same place every time, you might be aiming at a slightly different spot on the target each time, despite having the effect of thinking you are aiming at the same spot. Hard to explain but the long and short of it is that at 50yd deer ranges, don't lose your **** over it.

Set your scope at 60yds give or take, go shoot deer, save your pennies and wait for a nice crystal scope to come up for sale around the 400-600quid mark. If you do leave the high seat and need to take shots at further ranges, then maybe adjusting the focus will assist but it in the heat of the moment, the benefits are minimal. I use mine but mainly when absolute precision shooting on targets when I am aiming literally as small as possible. For all other shooting, point, shoot and go collect the animal.

The perfect answer! Apologies for interrupting the sport Cottis

 

[.25-06]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to try it. It will work just fine, already there and no further faffing around

Wow, wasn't expecting that Alan! Its also go a fairly narrow 42mm (I think) objective lens. I'm absolutely not being scope snobby, in fact quite the opposite. Maybe I should try it first eh? Thank you.

 

[Sheprador1973]

Update

We'll I tried out the Simmons scope in the field and it wasn't too bad. Managed to get a 1" 'group' with it at 100m. However the reticle is rather thick for the longer shots at small targets. My biggest problem is that it fogged up instantly in the rain making it virtually impossible to get a sight picture. Looked through my mate's Vortex Viper next to me and it was crystal clear. Oh, and the AO is a pain as expected.

Short term I can't afford the Viper range but anyone got any experience of the cheaper Diamondbacks? They have less lens protection but Ive read good reports online, albeit mainly from the US No offence Muir...its just our weather and range of shot can be rather different! ).