Newbie here, just registered on the forum. Previously only shot air rifles and shotguns on an occasional basis. However, I am thinking of taking up shooting as a sport and intend joining a shooting club. I have researched some rifles and like the Tikka T3 Tac A1 in 6.5 Creedmoor. I am considering this calibre as it has less recoil than 308 calibre so better for my shoulder that I have recently broke and recovering with. Also it still seems accurate and has the velocity down range that others have said is suitable for deer and boar hunting at long range and can be on an equal with a 308 calibre out to 800m with specific ammunition such as the Hornady. So my question is, would the Police think the above valid reasons to award an FAC (given medicals etc. all cleared) for one of these rifles if I intend to use it on Range Target shooting through a club and also where I could use it for deer hunting and wild boar hunting in the UK or even Europe if possible. The other issue I was concerned about was the noise levels from this rifle. I was also thinking of requesting a moderator as part of the FAC to reduce noise levels to more acceptable db levels for health and safety of my self and others in shooting ranges etc. I heard that some clubs may not allow this rifle on some ranges because of the noise it generates, therefore another reason to request a moderator.Welcome any guidance or comments as a newbie
Future Centre Fire Purchase - Newbie
- Thread starter GB4
- Start date
Welcome to the site.
I sometimes go to a range where they stipulate some sort of ear protectors must be worn but I also have moddies for each of my rifles. Doesn't do any harm to ask for one on your ticket.
Ed
I sometimes go to a range where they stipulate some sort of ear protectors must be worn but I also have moddies for each of my rifles. Doesn't do any harm to ask for one on your ticket.
Ed
In your position, I'd think joining a club would be an excellent idea - even before applying for FAC. Depending on the club, you might then be able to shoot club rifles and get a feel for things (as well as other members' opinions) before committing to a particular choice on your FAC, as well as being able to show you've passed the probationary membership stage.
In general, 800m performance is not particularly relevant to quarry-shooting as most of us understand it, and .308 is an undisputably good all-round choice for target (F/TR) and larger quarry (incl. on the Continent). With a moderator particularly, it's recoil is not IMO by any means severe. However, a rifle competitive in F/TR is not necessarily ideal for sporting purposes.
I confess I don't know much about 6.5 Creedmoor, apart from that it's currently fashionable.
If you're planning to target-shoot in whatever discipline, it's likely you'll end up reloading - so factory ammuntion might not be the deciding factor in choice of calibre.
In general, 800m performance is not particularly relevant to quarry-shooting as most of us understand it, and .308 is an undisputably good all-round choice for target (F/TR) and larger quarry (incl. on the Continent). With a moderator particularly, it's recoil is not IMO by any means severe. However, a rifle competitive in F/TR is not necessarily ideal for sporting purposes.
I confess I don't know much about 6.5 Creedmoor, apart from that it's currently fashionable.
If you're planning to target-shoot in whatever discipline, it's likely you'll end up reloading - so factory ammuntion might not be the deciding factor in choice of calibre.
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
If you’re intending to join a club you will have to be a Probationary member for six months I believe. Before you can become a full member, at which point you can apply for your FAC. It is not quite the same as having some land or booked Stalking as your “Good reason”.
As for noise between a 6.5 Creedmoor and a 308 both are in excess of 140db at which permanent hearing damage will occur. As such a sound moderator if requested will be approved for hearing protection.
It might be worth your while looking up Home Office Guidelines Firearms. Have a read through the Good Reason section it explains target shooting vs quarry shooting.
You will probably still have questions, but it gives you an idea of what you want to ask.
As for noise between a 6.5 Creedmoor and a 308 both are in excess of 140db at which permanent hearing damage will occur. As such a sound moderator if requested will be approved for hearing protection.
It might be worth your while looking up Home Office Guidelines Firearms. Have a read through the Good Reason section it explains target shooting vs quarry shooting.
You will probably still have questions, but it gives you an idea of what you want to ask.
gonzo
Well-Known Member
The police will want you to have full membership of a home office approved club, which they will accept as a 'good reason' to posess firearms for target shooting. That means you will need to have completed your probationary period with that club. But as the application process can take a long time, there is nothing to stop you putting in your application whilst serving your probation.
They will also need to see that you have somewhere to shoot whatever you apply for. So if your club has access to a range that shoors fullbore rifles, then all is fine.
If you also want to use a rifle for deer etc. you will need to have written evidence of shooting permissions, appropriate to each gun.
Whether a club will allow you to use a particular rifle, is for you to discus with your club.
Permissions for moderators is usually not an issue. A good reason is for hearing protection, for target or sporting use. I have not recently heard of anyone having an aplication refused.
You don't need to ask for target and sporting use for your guns at the time of application. You can request target use to start with, then ask for sporting use to be added at a later date. Or vica versa. (But learning to use your rifle on a range, is probably a good thing.)
They will also need to see that you have somewhere to shoot whatever you apply for. So if your club has access to a range that shoors fullbore rifles, then all is fine.
If you also want to use a rifle for deer etc. you will need to have written evidence of shooting permissions, appropriate to each gun.
Whether a club will allow you to use a particular rifle, is for you to discus with your club.
Permissions for moderators is usually not an issue. A good reason is for hearing protection, for target or sporting use. I have not recently heard of anyone having an aplication refused.
You don't need to ask for target and sporting use for your guns at the time of application. You can request target use to start with, then ask for sporting use to be added at a later date. Or vica versa. (But learning to use your rifle on a range, is probably a good thing.)
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
Dorset are going against the Guidelines then. It clearly states booked Stalking are “Good reason”. Mind you Firearms licensing departments are notorious for making it up to suit themselves. Otherwise we’d have a consistent efficient service across the country
To all above replies, Thank you for all your comments. I am definitely planning on joining a local club and waiting for the probationary 6months before applying for a FAC. That will also give me more time to save some pennies for a purchase and decide exactly which rifle I will want. At the moment though I am leaning towards the 6.5 creedmoor calibre as it has less recoil but doesn't seem to lose too much BC. The club has already indicated its indoor range would not be above to accommodate a 6.5 creedmoor as its too loud so would probably have to use it on the Otterburn ranges on arranged shoots with the club. I have recently broke my shoulder so this s another reason why I didn't want to have something that kicks too much. I have viewed a lot of reviews on Youtube about the 6.5 creedmoor and it still seem to be a worthy contender for deer and boar hunting as well as target shooting. Anyway thank you all again for the advice it is appreciated. No doubt I will have more questions later on.
You do not have to shoot any competitions formal or informal to have a gun conditioned for target so it really doesn't matter what competition classes calibres are suitable for, this is clarified in the current guidance.
You do need to be a member of a club and generally a full member before you can use it as your good reason. Likewise for Quarry condition you need to prove access to the quarry you ask for such as a deer permission or booked stalks. They will likely be more happy for you to have one rifle suitable for both than two similar rifles at first grant so that stacks up. Shooting target with the same rifle you use for deer will also mean you can get familiar with your set up before shooting at a sentient beast which is always a very good idea.
Chances are either calibre will exceed the velocity limit of most indoor and small bore ranges as they are often old pistol ranges so consider that when joining a club.
Calibre wise I own both and have shot various rifles in both, with a heavy barrelled rifle and decent mod there is very little difference between 155 gr out of a .308 and 140 gr out of a creedmoor recoil wise, neither are particularly bad if moderated. In your situation I'd probably go .308 purely because you can get decent factory for £1.00 to £1.50 a round, creedmoor currently is generally £2.50+ depending on the loading. At the end of the day the more ammo you can afford to buy as a new shooter the more you can practice, which in the end, will make you a better shot.
You do need to be a member of a club and generally a full member before you can use it as your good reason. Likewise for Quarry condition you need to prove access to the quarry you ask for such as a deer permission or booked stalks. They will likely be more happy for you to have one rifle suitable for both than two similar rifles at first grant so that stacks up. Shooting target with the same rifle you use for deer will also mean you can get familiar with your set up before shooting at a sentient beast which is always a very good idea.
Chances are either calibre will exceed the velocity limit of most indoor and small bore ranges as they are often old pistol ranges so consider that when joining a club.
Calibre wise I own both and have shot various rifles in both, with a heavy barrelled rifle and decent mod there is very little difference between 155 gr out of a .308 and 140 gr out of a creedmoor recoil wise, neither are particularly bad if moderated. In your situation I'd probably go .308 purely because you can get decent factory for £1.00 to £1.50 a round, creedmoor currently is generally £2.50+ depending on the loading. At the end of the day the more ammo you can afford to buy as a new shooter the more you can practice, which in the end, will make you a better shot.
Thanks for that detailed info. From the few gun shops I have checked the Creedmoor 6.5 was the cheaper round and also seen it better to buy in 100 round quantities. Thats the other query I had from the FAC application, was how many rounds are you likely to be allowed to hold at ant point. I was just thinking around the 120 which would mean I could buy in bulk and could perhaps still have twenty rounds left over. How many rounds of ammunition does your FAC allow?
What are they charging for .308?
GGG completion ammo is £20/20 at Bisley as is the Rws.
HPS target ammo locally is £60/50.
What load is the creedmoor?
Sako are doing 'practice' ammo at a reasonable price but don't know how it would shoot compared to their premium target round.
You are looking at target loadings rather than expanding ammo in .308 as these are often more costly.
As for ammo allowance if you are shooting monthly 2-300 would not be unreasonable
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Hornady ELD Match 6.5mm / .264 140gr (100pk) £59 :
https://www.bushwear.co.uk/hornady-eld-match-6-5mm-264-140gr-100pk-s23215.html
HORNADY 6.5MM/.264 140GR ELD MATCH BULLET HEADS (100PK) -£55
Hornady 6.5mm\/.264 140gr Eld Match Bullet Heads 100pk
They are bullets, not cartridges. Will you be reloading your own ammunition?
Factory ammunition (complete cartridges) will be comfortably cheaper in .308
If you are reloading, then it doesn't really matter too much.
I wouldn't worry about ammo allowance at the mo. When you have shot a bit on club ranges, you will get a better idea who much will be suitable and this can be discussed with your FEO at interview prior to the issue of your FAC
Legals:
Not all clubs are the same. Speak to the committee and ask their advice. MOD range using clubs have a set of rules they can not control
Private clubs have very different ones. We have a "club" that set up locally that is not much more than a "pay and play" range.
It is being used as good reason and does not have the probationary element that others do
Apply with as many good reasons as you can.
Get land permission for fox and deer if you can.
If you have experience of firearms (SG/Air) the bit you need to add to your knowledge is backstops and the ballistic differences of a Centrefire
ALWAYS apply for a moderator for EVERY rifle you apply for under H&S grounds
Whether you use it or not the slot can be switched for a firearm for free under 141 variations. Nice to have
Ammo allowance - apply for minimum 200, ideally more.
target ammo often comes in 50s, you may want to try a few types
if you reload you will want to make 100 at a time
range days could see you fire 50 or more
if you want to hunt you will need some different ammo further adding to the number held
Whatever you go for write a letter with your application
You want to answer ALL the questions BEFORE the FEO comes to see you
Get your ducks in a row
Know your cartridge inside and out
Know your safety inside and out
Know you reasons inside and out
Get as much experience as you can.
Costs/Choices:
If cost is a concern at all the just get a 308
Nothing with "CM" behind the name is cheap!
I would argue that the recoil benefits are as much down to the gun as the cartridge
the Tac A1 is a heavy sucker already - Moderate or Brake it and you have even less recoil
Be aware moderators won't just screw on to the A1 Tac, the threads have been cut for the US market at 5/8" for use with a brake NOT a mod and do not have the standard undercut required to centre the mod on the shoulder of the barrel rearwards of the threaded section.
But the 308 is cheaper to feed, you can buy plinking and target ammo cheaper than you can reload
The rifle options are much wider
The competition options are much wider
The components are more numerous and much cheaper
Lapua 308 is roughly 60% of 6.5CM brass
Practicalities:
None of the component choice above will make you a better shooter!
Choose one you can feed reliably and within your budget
Learn to shoot it, that comes from range time and rounds fired.....costs
No amount of mental masturbation is going to put your bullet on target at 800-1000m if you got the wind wrong!
The external ballistic advantages of the CM do not come into significant effect until past 600m
A 150-155gr 308 bullet is just as capable of 1000yds as the 6.5cm is in the right hands
Not all clubs are the same. Speak to the committee and ask their advice. MOD range using clubs have a set of rules they can not control
Private clubs have very different ones. We have a "club" that set up locally that is not much more than a "pay and play" range.
It is being used as good reason and does not have the probationary element that others do
Apply with as many good reasons as you can.
Get land permission for fox and deer if you can.
If you have experience of firearms (SG/Air) the bit you need to add to your knowledge is backstops and the ballistic differences of a Centrefire
ALWAYS apply for a moderator for EVERY rifle you apply for under H&S grounds
Whether you use it or not the slot can be switched for a firearm for free under 141 variations. Nice to have
Ammo allowance - apply for minimum 200, ideally more.
target ammo often comes in 50s, you may want to try a few types
if you reload you will want to make 100 at a time
range days could see you fire 50 or more
if you want to hunt you will need some different ammo further adding to the number held
Whatever you go for write a letter with your application
You want to answer ALL the questions BEFORE the FEO comes to see you
Get your ducks in a row
Know your cartridge inside and out
Know your safety inside and out
Know you reasons inside and out
Get as much experience as you can.
Costs/Choices:
If cost is a concern at all the just get a 308
Nothing with "CM" behind the name is cheap!
I would argue that the recoil benefits are as much down to the gun as the cartridge
the Tac A1 is a heavy sucker already - Moderate or Brake it and you have even less recoil
Be aware moderators won't just screw on to the A1 Tac, the threads have been cut for the US market at 5/8" for use with a brake NOT a mod and do not have the standard undercut required to centre the mod on the shoulder of the barrel rearwards of the threaded section.
But the 308 is cheaper to feed, you can buy plinking and target ammo cheaper than you can reload
The rifle options are much wider
The competition options are much wider
The components are more numerous and much cheaper
Lapua 308 is roughly 60% of 6.5CM brass
Practicalities:
None of the component choice above will make you a better shooter!
Choose one you can feed reliably and within your budget
Learn to shoot it, that comes from range time and rounds fired.....costs
No amount of mental masturbation is going to put your bullet on target at 800-1000m if you got the wind wrong!
The external ballistic advantages of the CM do not come into significant effect until past 600m
A 150-155gr 308 bullet is just as capable of 1000yds as the 6.5cm is in the right hands
Thanks for this reply, very informative. With regards to calibre choice, the Tikka T3X Tac A1 is also available in .260 and .308 as far as I understand, so the alternative options are there as you highlight.
Thanks again loving all this knowledge. So pleased I joined this forum.
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