CZ & Weihrauch .22 Hornet Questions

[Oly]

I'm seriously considering a 22 hornet. I have found and like the build of the Weihrauch HW60 but on another forum I have read:

"There is one problem with the Weihrauch - the magazine. Anything more than a couple of thou' longer than factory produced ammo which utilises "special to type" hornet bullets will not fit in it. This means that any high ballistic coefficient bullet will be single shot"

This seems a little strange to me, and disturbing as I would be reloading. Has anyone else had the same experience or overwise?

The other option is the CZ. Again I've read elsewhere:

"CZ 527 american and the varmint are both available in hornet and due to the fact they chamber the barrel and produce the bore in one operation are as good as it gets in the calibre (which must be tight and consentric or they don't shoot good)"

Again, can anyone verify or elaborate on this? The CZ isn't as nice build, but if it's inherently more accurate (and reloadable!) then it's a much more serious contender.

There is a Brno Fox Mod in the area for sale, but I'm guessing it wouldn't have been the same manufacturing process as the 527 (chambering the barrel and produce the bore in one operation)?

Thanks,
Oly

 

[mealiejimmy]

I have a Weihrauch HW60 in 22 hornet and load 40g Hornady V Max bullets for it.
However, to get the rounds to fit in the magazine, all of the parallel section of the bullet is inside the neck of the case and the case mouth is not gripping anything
The hornet is a rimmed cartridge and if the rims overlap, the cartridge won't feed from the magazine.
Having to keep the rims stacked next to each other in the magazine reduces the length available.
To be able to get 4 rounds in the magazine, the maximum overall length of each round can't be more than about 1.710"
Single loading is a PITA because an empty magazine prevents the bolt from moving forward.
The magazine could be modified so that the bullet carrier sat a little lower, but that's clearly not what the designers had in mind for this rifle
Extraction is also not wonderful, and occasionally I have to use a 17 cal cleaning rod pushed into the barrel from the muzzle end to remove a fired case
Having said all that, the trigger is sublime, the accuracy is excellent, the jagmatch stock is really comfortable and the general finish of the rifle is very, very good.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I'm seriously considering a 22 hornet. I have found and like the build of the Weihrauch HW60 but on another forum I have read:

"There is one problem with the Weihrauch - the magazine. Anything more than a couple of thou' longer than factory produced ammo which utilises "special to type" hornet bullets will not fit in it. This means that any high ballistic coefficient bullet will be single shot"

This seems a little strange to me, and disturbing as I would be reloading. Has anyone else had the same experience or overwise?

The other option is the CZ. Again I've read elsewhere:

"CZ 527 american and the varmint are both available in hornet and due to the fact they chamber the barrel and produce the bore in one operation are as good as it gets in the calibre (which must be tight and consentric or they don't shoot good)"

Again, can anyone verify or elaborate on this? The CZ isn't as nice build, but if it's inherently more accurate (and reloadable!) then it's a much more serious contender.

There is a Brno Fox Mod in the area for sale, but I'm guessing it wouldn't have been the same manufacturing process as the 527 (chambering the barrel and produce the bore in one operation)?

Thanks,
Oly

I can say that the Brno Fox is a hammer forged barrel. The same as the CZ527, basically if you have not come across this before. The barrel is formed by putting a tube over the mandrel which is the finished chamber and rifling. It is then forged to shape with big hammers leaving the perfect copy of the mandrel inside. I have a CZ 550 which is a very accurate rifle. I also have a CZ527 but that has been rebarreled so is no longer standard.
There is some limit to length in my 222 with the mag. But it has never affected accuracy.

 

[Oly]

Bruce - that's a great insight to the Weihrauch, many thanks.

Sonic - I'm aware of hammer forging of barrels and rifling but not the chamber as well. So are you saying that the Brno Fox is a hammer forged barrel AND chamber too (or may the chamber be reamed like many)?

 

[Oly]

I've since been reading that the 527's magazine can limit reloaded length of rounds too, but it can be modified (or just buy one for a longer cartridge). I wonder if the same could be done for the Weihrauch?

 

[Henns]

I have the CZ527, and with home loading using lil gun powder, I can easily get groups of around 1/2 inch at 100 yards, often better. I pretty much exclusively use mine for night time fox shooting, and love it.

With regards to the magazine, it is true that the CZ struggles with some of the longer v-max type bullets, however I load 45 grain soft points, which are shorter and have no issues with these. You can also modify the magazine, and there are guides on how to do it, but I've not needed to.

The 35 grain v-max that a lot of people like, also load with no issues.

 

[pj1]

I have a he 60j in 22 hornet. It is fantastic. I've not experienced extraction problems but I have found that whoever threads the muzzle don't under cut the thread and depending on what moderator you put on it it may be an issue it may not. I have an atec cmm4 which is fine. I then bought a wildcat panther. Fantastic mod but it didn't suit the thread cuting of the weihrauch. Not wildcats problem at all but I contacted them and they sorted it for me.
I reload 35gn vmax and they fit the mag fine. 40 gn max are too long though. I can get one in the mag and one in the chamber so not a massive issue but a little annoying.

My friend has a cz 527 in 22 hornet. Again a cracking rifle but the same mag issue. 35 GN vmax fine 40 gn vmax too long for the mag. I believe in the case of both rifles traditional 40 and 45 grain soft points are not a problem though.

They are very nearly on a par with each other.
I would personally pick up both if you can and see what feels right.
I can squeeze a little more accuracy out of the weihrauch but think this is due to a better trigger.
The build quality of the weihrauch I would say is better. Smoother bolt, much much better inletting of the stock for the action and the trigger is much better but I wouldn't turn the cz down either and if I could have the cz as well I would in a heart beat.

 

[old keeper]

I have loaded for my HW60J for a few years now. ignoring the fact it's a brilliant rifle I can honestly say that I've had no problems. I'm no expert on reloading but just followed the basics and Hornady reloading instructions. I've used both Hornady 35grn V-Max and 45grn Varmint.

 

[mealiejimmy]

I believe a single shot loading "sledge" is available for the CZ

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Ray7756]

I have the cz 527 and reload for it and never had a problem, I also cast my own bullets so think if anyone was going to have problems it would be me,,,,but never once had a problem or had to single feed this gun, never tried the weirach so cant comment
Cheers
Ray

 

[Oly]

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

I have the cz 527 and reload for it and never had a problem, I also cast my own bullets so think if anyone was going to have problems it would be me,,,,but never once had a problem or had to single feed this gun, never tried the weirach so cant comment
Cheers
Ray

Ray, what sort of accuracy and speeds do you get with your cast rounds?

 

[Ray7756]

Hi Oly I use 44grn round nose bullets with gas checks , gives me 1/2 inch groups at 100 if im carefull, not sure of speed but think they are just shy of 2000 fps, but you would need to check the lyman loading book for that,,,, mine is in storage due to house move, I have recently got some Speer varmint factory bullets that I will be loading up to see if I can improve the groups, but the reason I got the hornet was because i could reload for it and use it as a plinker so casting my own makes sense as it keeps the cost way down, i use 8grn of H110 and bullets are lub/ sized and gas checks fitted
Cheers
Ray

 

[Muir]

I have been reloading for three CZ 527 Hornets and shoot with fellows who own three more between them. Unquestionable accuracy with them all when fed properly. I had previously owned a dozen Hornets til I got my CZ with the last being an Anschutz. The Anschutz was gorgeous but try as I might, I could never get it to shoot with my son's 527. One day a close friend was drooling over the Anny and I made him a deal: If he went down the Trading Post and paid for the CZ 527 American they had on the rack, in my name, I would give him the (much more expensive) Anschutz. He bolted from my house and picked up his Anschutz an hour later. I have never regretted the trade. Some on this Forum have referred to them as being "agricultural". I call them 'tack-drivers'.~Muir

 

[Oly]

Hi Oly I use 44grn round nose bullets with gas checks ,
Ray

Ray, do you find that they ricochet more easily than factory bought heads? Have you ever tried going subsonic with them too (if so I presume that they ricochet more readily?)?

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Ray, do you find that they ricochet more easily than factory bought heads? Have you ever tried going subsonic with them too (if so I presume that they ricochet more readily?)?

I tried with hornet bullets. A 45 grain jacketed soft point got them down to about 2000fps. They bounced for fun even though they should of expanded at that speed.
I know they are not exactly the same but it’s along the lines of what you were asking. I was going for subsonic but it was the lowest I could get with the powder I had.
I had considered cast bullets but was concerned that they would cause leading to the bore and still ricochet.

 

[Oly]

I tried with hornet bullets. A 45 grain jacketed soft point got them down to about 2000fps. They bounced for fun even though they should of expanded at that speed.

Does the hornet ricochet more readily than other rounds at standard velocities too? Or was it just because you were experimenting worth lower velocities?

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I don’t think it does. I don’t own one but friends who have, haven’t complained about it.
I believe it is a direct consequence of the speed they were going. ie not fast enough to make them expand and or break up.
Not sure on the cast bullets I didn’t get much further than getting the scrap lead and Linotype together. The specific job I had for the lower velocity (muzzle energy) rounds was in a sensitive area. Damage to the sports pitches by rabbits. I needed more range than 22lr. But 222 made as much mess when the bullet hit the ground. The ricochet risk made the idea untenable.

 

[Blobby159]

I have this same ,lack of magazine length problem with my .22H Anschutz 1700 rifle that I have had since I bought it new back in 1987. The Sierra 40gr & 45gr "Hornet" softpoints are just great and deliver what they are touted to deliver if one keeps the velocities "Up" into the 2,500 fps + region at launch. My loads are into the 2,850 fps region. Inside of nearing 100 yds my thus loaded "Hornet" specific bullets literally 'pop' rabbits and will drop foxes on the spot if the hits are brain, neck spine or forward, center lower chest.
Like another respondent here I also load the really excellent 45gr. Sierra BlitzKing and use them quite extensively, finding that they extend my range by about 40yds or so on the traditional round nose projectiles, out to a very useable 150yds+. They are as accurate as the Sierra Hornet bullets - so are great in that field too! Loading is a bit weird as I too find that to function through the close tolerance magazines of my Anschutz requires those 45gr BlitzKing bullets to be seated far into the case, with the parallel sides of the bullets just down below the case mouth rim.
Never-the-less, in this configuration they function well despite this somewhat odd arrangement and are great rabbit and fox medicine from my Anschutz - which by the way I had reamed out to the very slightly larger .22K-Hornet dimensions early on in our love affair...
35gr V-Max .224 bullets load and function through my tight magazines very well and without need to 'adapt' the load COAL like with the pointed 45gr BlitzKings. They are VERY accurate too within a slightly shorter range, but do move about a little more in strong cross winds. Rabbits and foxes hit cleanly by these light 35gr. projectiles don't seem to argue over their wind wanderings much though... Ha!!

Hope these observations help with your decisions and use of particular projectiles on YOUR .22 Hornet rifle(s) ...

ATB ...... and shoot safely

 

[Ray7756]

Ray, do you find that they ricochet more easily than factory bought heads? Have you ever tried going subsonic with them too (if so I presume that they ricochet more readily?)?

Hi Oly, just checked and using 8 grn of H110 with the lyman cast bullet #225438 44grn with gas checks they are traveling at 1913 fps ( according to the book) and have not noticed any ricochets , the range i use is in an old rock quarry so plenty of chances of testing for richochets
Never tried going sub sonic as the whole idea of the Hornet is a fast hitting round, if you go subsonic stick to 22LR
Cheers
Ray

 

[mealiejimmy]

Agreed, I have a 22 hornet and can't understand why anyone would want to load it so that a 40gn bullet would be subsonic when 22 subsonics are designed specifically for that purpose and would also be cheaper.
The fun/challenge with a 22 hornet is getting it up to a decent speed with 35-45gn bullets while still being a tack driver.

Cheers

Bruce