REACH COMPLIANCE - List of Powders

[Blobby159]

'Laurie' ..... So as far as we shooters are concerned then it's REALLY a Political Can of Worms ( but called anything but!) designed, at least in part, to limit the impact of Non- European produced propellants on the European market and manufacturing base??

I just wish that these changes which do impact us immensely, were ACCURATELY and HONESTLY Recorded at a Central Area such that we poor consumers can then safely, sensibly and above all EASILY chose our replacement propellants by the use we intent to put them to....

Surely we consumers have a RIGHT(?) to know what we are using, and what we can replace discontinued propellants with as alternatives if the ones we have been using sometimes for literally YEARS suddenly are no longer available to us in our Domestic Market ??

Kind Regards,

 

[Blobby159]

AND ANYWAY .... LET'S BE SENSIBLE HERE...

Who REALLY thinks that the EU Legislators here are concocting these elaborate (and many, including me would say UNNECESSARY) rules & reg's to keep it's populace erm.... Healthy?? when ALL of us that shoot rifles/pistols/shotguns and even occasionally cannon must by default use nitro and/or black powder solvents to remove the unburnt powder & burnt powder residues, and loosen or part dissolve lead and/or copper/gilding metals etc etc from the bores and mechanisms of our much beloved and pampered firearms and artillery??

Have you ever stopped to read the labels and consider what it is in these cleansing mixtures and compounds that we use willy nilly?? Nitrobenzene, Toluene, Strong Ammoniacal Alkalis, etc. etc....

REALLY TOXIC cancer causing and genetically altering solvents and additional active and stabilising chemicals!!.. If these EU H&SE executives REALLY desire to have us shooters as a healthy population of people engaged in an interesting sport they would, by default, have started banning just about EVERY Damned cleaning chemical/solvent we use ... Yet whom do you know (addressed to EVERYONE reading this) that rubs one or more of these powders into ones hands/face/genital areas etc. etc..?? I doubt that, even in a long and intensive reloading session if ANYONE actually comes into physical skin contact with even a kernel of any of their propellants being used in the process... I know I certainly don't.. Even if/when I spill a few kernels onto my reloading bench I sweep them onto a piece of paper with an old envelope etc. then pour off that paper piece into the official powder container.. Not a touch!!.. So how will these nasty chemicals included in certain powders EVER get to really affect us in the ways we are being protected from ourselves with ??

And whom amongst us 'handles' propellant powders on a 5/7 basis?? I know of NO-ONE who might even THINK of doing that, not even me, and I reload quite a bit in winter times as a recreational hobby in itself.... So this serious 'tinkering' around (spelt starting with an 'F') of our reloading propellants is not a Political Protectionism ... REALLY.??

Just saying like.....

Blobby159 (and getting older by the minute!) ...

 

[Blobby159]

And, EVERY TIME I use my bore cleaning solvents etc I manage to get some on my delicate paws, and I can smell these damaging solvents strongly for the whole of my cleaning times and for some time afterwards, so molecules have entered through my nose and into my lungs from whence, via my circulating blood system they will irrevocably go on to enter my liver/kidneys/brain/gonads (yes I did say 'gonads) and circulate round my entire body to varying degrees... Yet, to date, these vastly more potent chemicals (cos of our physical contact with said) are NOT legislated off the face of our reloading benches (living room coffee table for me)!

So.... NOT a Political Protectionist move to ban non-EU propellant powders??...... REALLY.??

Regards,
Blobby159

 

[8x57]

Blobby I'm sorry to say that your comparison about chemicals in bore cleaning solvents doesn't really stand up. While still quite unpleasant most were changed many many years ago so as to make them much safer and less toxic. For instance Hoppes Number 9 is now a quite different product to what it once was. Possibly not quite as effective as it was, but now less likely to damage your health. I still take care when using the unpleasant stuff though, and generally wear gloves as I hate the smell of the stuff that lingers on your hands for ages.

I can't remember an outcry when cleaning solvents were changed to make them safer, so why the reluctance by some shooters to change regarding powders. After all most of us have had to change powders several times for various reasons since we first started shooting. I still yearn for the I.C.I. Nobel powders that we used when I first started shooting. Not that they were particularly better than any of the powders that we are using today, they probably aren't, but because they were British made and more importantly cheap to buy.

In general I would say that people just don't like change, of any kind. Do you remember the outcry when unleaded petrol was introduced and 4Star outlawed? Many thought that it was the end of the world and that we would never survive. Well we are still here and still running petrol engines, well for the time being anyway but that's a different argument. Personally I will be sorry to see diesel engines go, but by the looks of it their days are numbered too.

 

[Blobby159]

Hi there '8x57'... There certainly is pressure -especially in and around London - supported by our controversial Mayor, but when I bought my BMW 320d at the rear end of 2002 diesels were being touted by the Prime Minister of the time as pretty much the ONLY SENSIBLE OPTION if one were to be purchasing a new car. So I followed THAT sensible at the time advice and bought a diesel saloon car. From the P.O.V. of a car that gave outstanding mileage whilst yet having the pure Oomph to be a pleasure to drive quickly whilst being able to eat up motorway miles effortlessly, DIESELS were The Dog's, and my then new Beemer was MY Dog's and I have ALWAYS been happy and proud to have had the use of such a well ballanced, comfortable saloon car !!

NOW Diesel cars - even those with highly efficient and effective Particulate Filters, regularly serviced and replaced if ever necessary - are being treated like the ultimate health criminals, to be avoided at every possible occasion treated, and given press as an anathema, blamed for all those dirty air situations where air quality goes tits up in big populace conurbations with serious health implications. When a quality, efficiently designed Diesel car gives yet TWICE the fuel mileage to a similarly sized Petrol engine, I still think a diesel sedan has a place in private motor vehicle use.

My 320d is now in it's 16th year of use and has given me and my family & friends many thousands of miles of pleasant, comfortable and effortless travel around the majority of our UK road system, and if I finally decide to replace my lovely motor I will almost certainly plumb for ANOTHER Diesel. I have bought a piggy-backed performance chip device for my Beemer and it has even yet transformed the way the very competent engine performs, giving me a substantial step up in b.h.p. and yet more importantly a seriously large step up in the quantity AND Quality of the Torque the block puts out. This means I have an even MORE Efficient Diesel engine under the bonnet and an even more relaxed driving experience. Better yet - if one can imagine this? - the piggy-backed performance chip can be installed and/or removed in a matter of about 20 minutes.... Even by ME!, and then the car engine just simply reverts to the standard Default unit..

I have been thoroughly spoilt by this car and especially by its DIESEL Power Unit and have no intentions of changing over despite our London Mayor making City driving of an old diesel unit down like mine down right prohibitively expensive.. Somewhere on the wrong side of a £50 DAILY Tariff... Yes DAILY!!! Needless to say I will continue using Public Transport in London..!

So hating change '8x57'??... Well for me here, categorically so my man... Ha!!

Regards,
Blobby159.

 

[25 Sharps]

The list is wrong, all Ramshot Powders are reach compliant as they are manufactured in Belgium

Blog - REACH Compliant Ramshot Reloading Powders

Henry Krank are the sole UK importer of this wide range of high quality, REACH compliant powders that continue to meet the needs of both serious and recreational shooters.

www.henrykrank.com

Kranks are the importer

 

[levigsp]

So does RE 26 have a twin?

 

[Laurie]

No. It's the only one I know of supplied to Alliant ATK for which there isn't a domestic Reload Swiss equivalent.

BTW I see posts on Accurate Shooter and other US forums quoting tremendous MV increases in suitable cartridges, 100-150 fps in some cases. Shades of 2009/2010 and the Reloder 17 frenzy in the USA ..... and with the same results too one imagines 12 months down the line when the bill arrives.

 

[Tulloch]

I am getting confused over this list , REACH compliance came in last June and Henry Krank is still listing products that are on THIS list from the OP , has anyone got a full for definite list ???? This powder crap is driving me insane as I prefer to use 1 powder for .243, 6.5 and the .270 at this rate am gonna have to use 3 different powders and at the price I might as well go back to factory

 

[LeftHandGuy]

I am getting confused over this list , REACH compliance came in last June and Henry Krank is still listing products that are on THIS list from the OP , has anyone got a full for definite list ???? This powder crap is driving me insane as I prefer to use 1 powder for .243, 6.5 and the .270 at this rate am gonna have to use 3 different powders and at the price I might as well go back to factory

Would Vhit N160 not be a good powder for all three?

 

[Tulloch]

Would Vhit N160 not be a good powder for all three?

I have been looking at the Vhit recipes and they are just not giving me the right speeds for the bullets I use.

currently I use RE19 and here is the results :

100gr spitzer Sierra Prohunter for . 243 ... 3068fps with an SD of 2.1
130gr spitzer Sierra Prohunter for .270 ... 2943fps with an SD of 8
140gr Sierra Game Kings for 6.5 Creedmoor .... 2765fps with and SD of 1.6

Now I have been playing with the new Sierra Gamechangers that I know DO NOT work in my .243 but give me good results in the 6.5 and the .270 but if I am having to change powders I am at a loss at what to use to get the same performance, it is frustrating.

 

[LeftHandGuy]

I have been looking at the Vhit recipes and they are just not giving me the right speeds for the bullets I use.

currently I use RE19 and here is the results :

100gr spitzer Sierra Prohunter for . 243 ... 3068fps with an SD of 2.1
130gr spitzer Sierra Prohunter for .270 ... 2943fps with an SD of 8
140gr Sierra Game Kings for 6.5 Creedmoor .... 2765fps with and SD of 1.6

Now I have been playing with the new Sierra Gamechangers that I know DO NOT work in my .243 but give me good results in the 6.5 and the .270 but if I am having to change powders I am at a loss at what to use to get the same performance, it is frustrating.

Rl 19 is REACH compliment though. Why change?

 

[Tulloch]

Rl 19 is REACH compliment though. Why change?

not if you read the OP list

 

[LeftHandGuy]

not if you read the OP list

Luckily for you the OPs list appears to be wrong. RL19 is made in the EU by Bofors. If you look at their website they claim 100% REACH compliance. But if you’re really not sure then check with Edgar Bros if they have any plan to stop importing it.

Same parent company seems to own the factory where RAMSHOT are made as well:

Our products

Defence and security...

www.smallcaliberpropellants.com

So hopefully you should be OK!

 

[gonzo]

Not sure if this has been asked so far.....

But has anyone notices any commercial ammunition becoming unabtainable due to the powderd used in the loading?
Or is REACH only for 'consumer chemicals', which is probably how powders are viewed?

 

[Tulloch]

Luckily for you the OPs list appears to be wrong. RL19 is made in the EU by Bofors. If you look at their website they claim 100% REACH compliance. But if you’re really not sure then check with Edgar Bros if they have any plan to stop importing it.

Same parent company seems to own the factory where RAMSHOT are made as well:

Our products

Defence and security...

www.smallcaliberpropellants.com

So hopefully you should be OK!

Exactly what I thought that is why I questioned the OP and their list as that had me well confused I actually moved to RE19 because I cannot get RE16 and that I was under the impression that it WAS REACH compliant ,

ALl good I will keep using it until I cant

 

[Yorric]

Assuming that as we suspect, the list provided in the OP has some significant mistakes in it, Bobby159 have you been back in touch with the BASC person who issued it & asked where their useless information came from & if & when they will publish a corrected & cross checked version??

Ian

 

[Blobby159]

Exactly what I thought that is why I questioned the OP and their list as that had me well confused I actually moved to RE19 because I cannot get RE16 and that I was under the impression that it WAS REACH compliant ,

ALl good I will keep using it until I cant

No 'Tulloch' I have not been in touch with that BASC fellow since. I have had similar difficulties with trying to access RL 16 (and RL 17 too for that matter)... According to my not so local main provider of all things reloading - Roading Armoury, Abridge, Essex - BOTH of these were REACH Non-Compliant and noted as such some time back and hence their lack of any in stock!? As per a note I posted here just a few hours back, I have looked online at three of my would-be suppliers in the U.K. and again found that BOTH RL16 & RL17 were not even mentioned, all three having ALLIANT Powder availability jump from RL15 over to RL19 with nothing in between these two at all. I looked into yet another online and shop RFD presence this morning and found EXACTLY the same hole in the Reloader numbers so I am guessing - pretty good guess to I feel - that they are NON- Compliant and therefore neither being imported, stocked nor identified in online shopping possibilities.

Regards,
Blobby159

 

[Blobby159]

Assuming that as we suspect, the list provided in the OP has some significant mistakes in it, Bobby159 have you been back in touch with the BASC person who issued it & asked where their useless information came from & if & when they will publish a corrected & cross checked version??

Ian

Ian/'Yorric'... I have a definite feeling that if I were to address my secondary query about Reach Compatibility as per your recent post (above) that I would probably get a terse response if any, then nothing more.... EVER!!

I get your frustration and I can tell you that you are faaaar from being alone here with it, but politeness wins the day, most of the time anyways...

As you are the second guy on here to ask just that in very short order I will get back to that BASC Official later on today and publicise the response I receive (if at all) OK?

As to it's content if I get a reply... There is an old saying that goes ... "Don't shoot the Messenger"..

ATB ...... and shoot safely

 

[Yorric]

Ok Bobby, Please let us know the response from your source. Be gentle with them to get a response, but do let them know the folly of publishing poor data & maybe hint that such bad info will result in BASC getting slated - again!
Regards
Ian