Lets Talk about The Zeiss V4

The Bear · Mar 24, 2019

Where/when will the full review be published?

mjf · Mar 25, 2019

Curious why you are not a big fan of Japanese glass and on what basis you say it has come along in the last few years?

I've never owned scopes or binos from Japanese companies so I can't comment specifically on hunting equipment, but on the photography side, Canon/Nikon have always been known for industry leading products, especially those items made in Japan. If I compare the lenses that I own from Leica (M series for rangefinder) with those that I have from Canon (L series for SLR), I'd say they are different but the quality control and sharpness is comparatively good.

Tulloch said:
I am in the middle of the Zeiss V4 review and the one I have chose to review was the 6-24 x 50 with the Zmoa BDC turret ,

I have to say I am not going to through the whole review on here mainly because it has not finished, but, I am gonna to write about how surprised I am on how far quality scope manufacturing has evolved over the years give us stalkers and shooters some amazing variety to choose from and none more than Zeiss.

Zeiss chose to ditch their Terra scope range and focus as their lower budget scope the V4,

The V4 is not German glass like the V6 and V8, and for the most part I am not a huge fan of Japanese glass and, dare I say it, neither are many UK and European hunters, but, Japanese glass has come a very long way in the last decade and providing some amazing quality optics and when you couple that with European scope engineering from companies such as Zeiss then you know your into something special.

One thing I have to say is the price of the V4 is less than £1000 for true 1000yrd performance with turrets that break glass on every turn, in some places the V4 is as low as £800 brand new. Now when you look at the price of top quality scopes like the V4 along with various others on the market, then, you see second hand scopes going for the same price you can understand why the second hand scope market has become stagnant and awash with scopes that were upwards of £2k a couple of years ago not being able to be sold. Glass is a hard sell.

I can only imagine what the scope market is going to be like in the future if this is the quality we are getting from our current mid-range priced market.

In conversation with many other shooters within all the shooting communities it seems the scopes we use can out shoot the abilities of the "rifle-person" and I know they can out shoot me.

I am currently testing the Zeiss V4 6-24x50 as a hunting and long range hunting scope housed upon the Tikka T3 .270 rifle, shooting a very basic and cheap homeload set up , FED brass , CCI 200 primers, Sierra Prohunter 130gr bullets and 59gr RE 19 powder and the performance I get from that rifle is shooting the 130gr at 2930fps with a BC of 0.373 and an SD of around 9 . SO not the best load in the world but does group sub quarter MOA at 100m. With this set up housing the Zeiss Victory HT 2.5-10x50 scope I dropped 5 rounds centre on a pumpkin at 500yrds so I am eager to see if I can run a similar performance with the V4, I have shot a few deer with the V4 already and I am very impressed so far.

Back to what I was saying about scopes under £1000, the quality you have to admit has definitely improved over the years offering very capable, or should I say, immensely capable performance for half the price of ones 5-10 years earlier.

I am looking forward to the future.

Klenchblaize · Mar 25, 2019

As with the aversion for a Hungarian built S&B you can multiply that and then some for a 'Zeiss' with other than the very thing that made their name.

K

Tulloch · Mar 25, 2019

The Bear said:
Where/when will the full review be published?

I should have the review done by the end of the week . www.fieldsportsscotland.co.uk/reviews

mjf said:
Curious why you are not a big fan of Japanese glass and on what basis you say it has come along in the last few years?

I've never owned scopes or binos from Japanese companies so I can't comment specifically on hunting equipment, but on the photography side, Canon/Nikon have always been known for industry leading products, especially those items made in Japan. If I compare the lenses that I own from Leica (M series for rangefinder) with those that I have from Canon (L series for SLR), I'd say they are different but the quality control and sharpness is comparatively good.

Japanese glass has been notorious in the past of having crystal clear vision at the centre of the lens which is brilliant for cameras but where they lacked was edge to edge focus and the coatings on Japanese glass (unless you went proper high end such as Vortex RZR HD and Nightforce NXS' etc ) were of lower quality than European glass .

Another thing I have found in the past with Japanese glass is poor optical relief and and eye relief causing you to struggle to get out of what I call the " tunnel" where you are searching for the reticle before even seeing through the glass. and that is a pain for quick target acquisition .

remember these reviews are just my personal opinion and although I shoot a lot and have reviewed hundreds of products it is still each to their own , but , there is some fantastic products that are AMerican/Japanese made such as Bushnell that have some excellent products that are missed because of past reputation as being cheap.

UK and European hunters and shooters can be quite snobbish over what scopes they use, it is worth doing the research as there is some good unknowns out there and the guys on a budget are the ones benefiting from them.

The Bear · Mar 25, 2019

Is it only online?

Tulloch · Mar 25, 2019

The Bear said:
Is it only online?

Yes mate .

Sabian223 · Mar 25, 2019

I've got the same Zeiss V4 6 - 24 x 50 ZMOA (BT) you're reviewing sat on my 243 and for the money it's hard to beat!

My main stalking scope is a 2.5-15x56 Zeiss V6 (BT) sat on top of my 308. Whilst there is a notable difference in field of view between the two as you would expect, there isn't that much difference in image quality other than maybe an extra 10-15 minutes at last light. The V6 has the better illumination control (ret 60). Best dot on the market!

The glass on both are superb and i'd recommend anyone to go and try one out.

User00003 · Mar 25, 2019

I often sit and look at the top optics manufacturers with despair, I have to say, especially Zeiss as they have this idea that the high end scopes need more features and functions and have to be bigger in all dimensions..

Now don't get me wrong, I love zeiss as well, all my optics have been zeiss (and S&B) in the past, but they were from a bygone era in scope manufacturing when life was simpler..

I ask, I want the following in a scope from a top european optics house, what are my options (please reply if you know)
a. 1" tube,,,worst case 30mm, but prefer 1" by far
b. long eye relief
c. an occular lens diameter no larger than 38 or 40mm as otherwise the scope has to sit way too high or the bolt handles have to be cut so thin you mess with their integrity
d. a long front tube so the scope can be set back far for standing and offhand shooting where laying down and 'stretching' for the scope isn't an option
e. gloss or almost gloss paint
f. non-illumination
g. no adjustable drift/drop nor parallax settings
h. a minimum mag setting of 1.25 for driven game
i. a maximum mag setting of 8 for long shots
j. a maximum objective lens diameter of 40mm, ideally 36mm
k. reticle no. 4 or ideally 7

I guess what I'm asking is, who makes such a real 'hunting' scope? I have in the past turned to Zeiss or S&B for 'hunting' scopes, but literally can't find a SINGLE product of ANY interest from Zeiss these days, and from S&B maybe two, where I'd have to place a custom order to have them remove a couple of features in production to simplify the scope (which they will at cost).

I think Zeiss, after they were about to pull out of the scope market a few years ago, struggling badly to gain any marketshare traction with current competition, so are trying to re-position some of their products to new market segments,,but IMHO, a 'budget' zeiss...I'd probably rather buy a top end Leupold for the same money!

I'll be reading the report and am grateful people like you do proper field reviews on gear!!! just don't make it biased because you want free zeiss stuff for a positive review please

caorach · Mar 25, 2019

Tulloch said:
Back to what I was saying about scopes under £1000, the quality you have to admit has definitely improved over the years offering very capable, or should I say, immensely capable performance for half the price of ones 5-10 years earlier.

I am looking forward to the future.

I think you are correct that modern scopes now offer more performance than we can use - most of the "less able" scopes are more than adequate for practical deer stalking these days and we see that in the sense that some manufacturers don't market their scopes on glass quality (as such) but on brand image and customer service. Apart, perhaps, for Nickel (and it's quite some time since I looked through one of them) there is no one to touch Zeiss in terms of glass when it comes to "sport optics" but the other side to this is that they are now probably well beyond where the actual practical stalker needs them to be. However, I am pretty sure that it is a mistake on the part of Zeiss to start marketing lower quality glass and scopes as they've been doing for some years now. Their "unique selling point" is that they make the best optics and I think they should be sticking to that and keeping right out of the battle for lower grade, but completely adequate, optics. In the stalking market it seems there is no shortage of people willing to throw cash at stuff they don't exactly need, but that are nice to have in terms of pleasure of ownership and I think Zeiss should be putting themselves in there with "we'll only ever make the best glass, if you can afford to pay for it" rather than their current tactic of also making lower end gear. At the lower end of the market they simply will not be able to compete plus it damages their brand image.

Again I'm not saying that the V4 is a "bad" scope, in fact I've no doubt it is an excellent scope, but I'm thinking merely in terms of marketing here rather than in terms of practical stalking.

I think the biggest confounding factor in terms of scopes for stalkers is the complete lack of solid, quantitative, independent testing of scopes and my understanding is that one of the big names, in particular, will not allow their scopes to be subject to such testing and as they pay for the adverts which pay for the "journalist's" wages so they call the shots. It is also the case that paying for such testing is expensive and it also takes a long time to do the testing so that isn't going to happen any time soon. The most recent decent test I've seen was this one, and it isn't of much interest to the stalker as it is aimed at "tactical" scopes but it is worth reading all the report just to see how much work they put into this:

Tactical Scopes: Field Test Results Summary & Overall Scores

This is the executive summary and overall scores from an epic scope field test focused on long-range...

precisionrifleblog.com

Everlong · Mar 25, 2019

This is where Delta come in - Japanese glass, manufactured in the Light Optical Works and better, both in performance and value, than either the Conquest V4 or V6 in my opinion. Sadly, some people think that a blue, red or bird shaped badge automatically means it's better. That's not been true for a while now.

Let's take one parameter as a good example.

Delta Titanium 2.5-15x56 - light transmission 93% for £700 - First deer I shot with it was 40 minutes after sunset, in very, very low light and the Fallow Doe was clearly visible against a dark background of trees.
Zeiss Victory V8 range - Light Transmission 92% - these are scopes that cost £2-3k

Just watch Richard Utting's review of the Delta scopes both for hunting and long range target use if you're unconvinced - this is a man that knows a thing or two about optics across the complete range of manufacturers.

caorach · Mar 25, 2019

PKL said:
I ask, I want the following in a scope from a top european optics house, what are my options (please reply if you know)

I don't think you've any options! About as close as you'll get, and I don't think it meets your exact requirements in any single area, is the standard fixed 6X42 and even they seem to be a rare thing these days as manufacturing costs are probably as near as makes no difference the same as some "feature" laden variable but you can charge an extra £2k for the variable. If I had infinite cash and wanted a decent stalking scope, rather than a talking about it on the internet scope, I'd probably look at one of these:

Nickel AG: Nickel 6x42 C

www.nickel-ag.com

The other option is something second hand from Zeiss of S&B. Personally I use an 8X56 S&B and the only thing I'd change it for is a fixed Zeiss or Nickel, they wouldn't give me any advantage but I'd know the glass was better

Tulloch · Mar 25, 2019

caorach said:
I think you are correct that modern scopes now offer more performance than we can use - most of the "less able" scopes are more than adequate for practical deer stalking these days and we see that in the sense that some manufacturers don't market their scopes on glass quality (as such) but on brand image and customer service. Apart, perhaps, for Nickel (and it's quite some time since I looked through one of them) there is no one to touch Zeiss in terms of glass when it comes to "sport optics" but the other side to this is that they are now probably well beyond where the actual practical stalker needs them to be. However, I am pretty sure that it is a mistake on the part of Zeiss to start marketing lower quality glass and scopes as they've been doing for some years now. Their "unique selling point" is that they make the best optics and I think they should be sticking to that and keeping right out of the battle for lower grade, but completely adequate, optics. In the stalking market it seems there is no shortage of people willing to throw cash at stuff they don't exactly need, but that are nice to have in terms of pleasure of ownership and I think Zeiss should be putting themselves in there with "we'll only ever make the best glass, if you can afford to pay for it" rather than their current tactic of also making lower end gear. At the lower end of the market they simply will not be able to compete plus it damages their brand image.

Again I'm not saying that the V4 is a "bad" scope, in fact I've no doubt it is an excellent scope, but I'm thinking merely in terms of marketing here rather than in terms of practical stalking.

I think the biggest confounding factor in terms of scopes for stalkers is the complete lack of solid, quantitative, independent testing of scopes and my understanding is that one of the big names, in particular, will not allow their scopes to be subject to such testing and as they pay for the adverts which pay for the "journalist's" wages so they call the shots. It is also the case that paying for such testing is expensive and it also takes a long time to do the testing so that isn't going to happen any time soon. The most recent decent test I've seen was this one, and it isn't of much interest to the stalker as it is aimed at "tactical" scopes but it is worth reading all the report just to see how much work they put into this:

Tactical Scopes: Field Test Results Summary & Overall Scores

This is the executive summary and overall scores from an epic scope field test focused on long-range...

precisionrifleblog.com

Totally agree with most part of what you say , I am complwtely independent on my reviews and testing so I can say how I see it.

Zeiss have not skimped on quality with the V4 but I get what you say about marketing but at £800 they are still at the high emd of mid range market.

Everlong said:
This is where Delta come in - Japanese glass, manufactured in the Light Optical Works and better, both in performance and value, than either the Conquest V4 or V6 in my opinion. Sadly, some people think that a blue, red or bird shaped badge automatically means it's better. That's not been true for a while now.

Let's take one parameter as a good example.

Delta Titanium 2.5-15x56 - light transmission 93% for £700 - First deer I shot with it was 40 minutes after sunset, in very, very low light and the Fallow Doe was clearly visible against a dark background of trees.
Zeiss Victory V8 range - Light Transmission 92% - these are scopes that cost £2-3k

Just watch Richard Utting's review of the Delta scopes both for hunting and long range target use if you're unconvinced - this is a man that knows a thing or two about optics across the complete range of manufacturers.

I tested the Deltas both Stryker and Titanium and owned a Titanium goid scopes but lack that crisp glass like turrets and zero stop engineering that Zeiss have . There is a clear difference in engineering quality .

The Delta is very much the same scope as the Nightforce SHV and both very very capable scopes for £600 so dont get me wrong

caorach · Mar 25, 2019

Tulloch said:
Zeiss have not skimped on quality with the V4 but I get what you say about marketing but at £800 they are still at the high emd of mid range market.

Just as a "thought experiment" to entertain myself I was wondering if Zeiss were to produce a series of "stalking" scopes in say 4X36, 6X43 and 8X56 and build them to the highest optical performance possible such that they sold for, say, £10k each do you think they'd sell them? They'd be marketed solely on optical quality and suitability for the job at hand.

The truth is that I think they'd sell, and they'd do Zeiss the world of good. The other side to it is that I think they'd mostly sell to people who wouldn't buy them if they were £300 each but who want to be on the internet telling people they own a £10k scope so in one way the majority of customers would be buying them for the wrong reason and, in truth, I suspect that maybe happens with a lot of "high end" scopes anyhow. However, it is interesting to think about it.

Everlong · Mar 25, 2019

Tulloch said:
Totally agree with most part of what you say , I am complwtely independent on my reviews and testing so I can say how I see it.

Zeiss have not skimped on quality with the V4 but I get what you say about marketing but at £800 they are still at the high emd of mid range market.

I tested the Deltas both Stryker and Titanium and owned a Titanium goid scopes but lack that crisp glass like turrets and zero stop engineering that Zeiss have . There is a clear difference in engineering quality .

The Delta is very much the same scope as the Nightforce SHV and both very very capable scopes for £600 so dont get me wrong

Not true at all

Delta Stryker has very crisp clicks now along with Locking Turrets, Zero Stop and 100 MOA of adjustment for elevation (I have the 5-50x56 on my Tikka TAC A1 in 6.5 Creedmoor for LR Target)

Glass in the Titanium is every bit as crisp as a Conquest - with better light transmission. I've used a lot of Zeiss scopes from Terra through to the V8 and all stops between.

User00003 · Mar 25, 2019

caorach said:
I don't think you've any options! About as close as you'll get, and I don't think it meets your exact requirements in any single area, is the standard fixed 6X42 and even they seem to be a rare thing these days as manufacturing costs are probably as near as makes no difference the same as some "feature" laden variable but you can charge an extra £2k for the variable. If I had infinite cash and wanted a decent stalking scope, rather than a talking about it on the internet scope, I'd probably look at one of these:

Nickel AG: Nickel 6x42 C

www.nickel-ag.com

The other option is something second hand from Zeiss of S&B. Personally I use an 8X56 S&B and the only thing I'd change it for is a fixed Zeiss or Nickel, they wouldn't give me any advantage but I'd know the glass was better

Nickel almost had a good product with the 1.5-6x30 magnum until they decided on simply silly reticle options, but should have started at 1.25 and had a 36mm objective lens

Leica almost had it as well with the er 1.5-8x32, but again didn’t think it through and ended up never launching it..could have been an almost cracker!

S&B has a wonderful scope in 4x36 and should reintroduce it, they should also consider a 1.25-4 or -6 x36 or x40 on the same plaform

They have a good scope in the stratos 1.5-6x42,,except 1.5 is too high a start and x42 is a tad large and could be brought down..also the stupid illumination light settings make the mind boggle!

The summit had potential if it was 1.25-8x40 on that 1” tube!! So close!

1894 · Mar 27, 2019

Please zeiss make a Victory HT 4-16x56 with no other changes

Ronin · Mar 28, 2019

Zeiss do make a 4-16/56

It’s made in their factory but branded Hensoldt

Superb scopes

Everlong · Mar 28, 2019

1894 said:
Please zeiss make a Victory HT 4-16x56 with no other changes

Will never happen....the 3-12x56 is the go to stalking scope in the HT line

Ronin said:
Zeiss do make a 4-16/56

It’s made in their factory but branded Hensoldt

Superb scopes

which is the military / law enforcement side of the business - totally separate

Ronin · Mar 28, 2019

Yes it may be but my point is if you want a 4-16x56 scope (with Zeiss optics) you could simply buy a Hensoldt

Lets Talk about The Zeiss V4

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