Lee Enfield smle

[Fosbery Holster]

I've no knowledge of the p14. Something new to Google

It was argued at the time of WW1 that England wouldn’t have enough rifles to equip the British forces, so America was tasked to fulfill the shortfall ( it really wasn’t needed) the British manufacturers stepped up their output and fulfilled contracts.
But the American “Enfield” P14/P17 in .303/.30.06 respectively were made and were found to be inherently accurate, particularly the Winchester manufacturer.
In short some came into service and the Winchester (the selected most accurate) were converted to sniper class, it’s conjecture wether they were used in combat but certainly the sniper conversions were kept and used early in WW2.

The Irish army, forgive my lack of knowledge as to what there correct name should be, had at least 77 of the P14 .303 sniper rifles, selling them onto the American market some time ago, and boy do they now sell at a premium to Worldwide collectors.
So the P14 has an affinity with the Irish army, if they had the Sniper variant they would certainly have the basic manufactured rifle’s.
You will find P14’s in sporting use, very accurate Mauser rifles.
This will give you more food for thought about which particular Enfield to use for deer stalking!

If this is the avenue you want to go down “ do it and enjoy your dream” you’ll only live to regret it if you don’t !

 

[Fosbery Holster]

In Ireland as a whole it’s common knowledge that the iconic SMLE will live on in its history, after all so many were captured from the British in ambushes carried out by the then Irish Republican Army.

If indeed it’s a liberated SMLE that could possibly be coming your way its part of Ireland’s history and definitely should not in my opinion be butchered by adding a scope.

As a boy my father would bring me back home to Ireland and in my great aunts house there would always be an SMLE (minus the bolt) secreted somewhere.

 

[Muir]

It was argued at the time of WW1 that England wouldn’t have enough rifles to equip the British forces, so America was tasked to fulfill the shortfall ( it really wasn’t needed) the British manufacturers stepped up their output and fulfilled contracts.
But the American “Enfield” P14/P17 in .303/.30.06 respectively were made and were found to be inherently accurate, particularly the Winchester manufacturer.
In short some came into service and the Winchester (the selected most accurate) were converted to sniper class, it’s conjecture wether they were used in combat but certainly the sniper conversions were kept and used early in WW2.

The Irish army, forgive my lack of knowledge as to what there correct name should be, had at least 77 of the P14 .303 sniper rifles, selling them onto the American market some time ago, and boy do they now sell at a premium to Worldwide collectors.
So the P14 has an affinity with the Irish army, if they had the Sniper variant they would certainly have the basic manufactured rifle’s.
You will find P14’s in sporting use, very accurate Mauser rifles.
This will give you more food for thought about which particular Enfield to use for deer stalking!

If this is the avenue you want to go down “ do it and enjoy your dream” you’ll only live to regret it if you don’t !

How many P-14's have you shot? At one time I had more than a dozen of them and they were generally more a accurate than the SMLE provided the barrels weren't shot out. Or the wood rotted out.

i like the 303 cartridge. I still have about forty .303's.~Muir

 

[Muir]

How many P-14's have you shot? At one time I had more than a dozen of them and they were generally more a accurate than the SMLE provided the barrels weren't shot out. Or the wood rotted out.

i like the 303 cartridge. I still have about forty .303's.~Muir

My girl friend just pointed out that I'd mis read the above post. I read it as the P-14 was IN accurate. Need to keep the specs on, I guess.... ~Muir

 

[Southern]

You cannot tell how an SMLE or No.4 will shoot by looking at it. I have seen an SMLE with a bore that looked like a smokestack shoot 5 rounds of surplus ammo into 1.5 inches at 100 yards.

And the bolts on both Enfields have head which just unscrew by hand, so you can adjust the firing pin or change it. These heads came in different thicknesses, so the right one could be mounted to the bolt to set the headspace.

If you want a really accurate one, look for a No.4 Mk1 or Mk2 with an 'FTR' marking: "Factory Through Repair". These were hand selected, then gone over, parts replaced, tuned up, and stored, after the Second World War and Korea. Some are already drilled for sniper scope mounting, and some of those already have the wooden cheekpiece added.

There were a bunch of new, never issued No.4 Mk2 Enfields in the cloth and paper wrap stored in arsenals in Ireland. In the mid-1990s, the British Army pulled them from stores and sold them off. Many found their way to Canada and the USA.

I hunt with my SMLEs, my SMLE conversion .22 LR, my No.4s, and my No.5 Jungle Carbine ( my first, gotten at age 12 in a swap for my Webley revolver ).

And that SMLE with the smokestack barrel which was brought in for repair to a gunsmith and military collector friend of mine to replace the firing pin.... the old timer said he had killed 67 deer with it, and considered it charmed.

 

[Southern]

When America entered WWI, they stopped shipping P14s to England. Later, in WWII, some were sent over for the Home Guard, and many remained in the USA for the state militias to use for guarding factories and seaports. My old Guard unit had a bunch of them stored in the basement. During the Gulf War, the National Guard brought back a cache of WWII British ammunition found in a cave, the Adjutant General gave us the P14s and a bandoliers of ammo. I am down to my last can of it!

 

[Muir]

My No4 MkII's were that mid nineties batch. Both new. One with a few nicks in the wood, the other wrapped. Both have .310" groove diameters and shoot .314" cast bullets into MOA with the right load and good eyes. Great rifles. Still, my favorite shooter is a Sparkbrook 1906 No I MkI with cast bullets. I have spent many wonderful hours shooting off hand with that rifle. ~Muir

 

[Harry mac]

No5. Is that the jungle carbine? I've heard there can be accuracy problems.

Yes, that's the "Jungle Carbine". You can get accuracy issues with any of them. The youngest Lee Enfield is going to be at least 70 years old by now. The secret is to find one with a good bore and tight, properly fitting woodwork.
If you're determined to have a No4, Fultons of Bisley have recently made a run of "new" rifles on unused receivers, with new Criterion barrels and new woodwork. Not cheap; until you start comparing them to other brand new rifles on the market.

 

[Fosbery Holster]

My girl friend just pointed out that I'd mis read the above post. I read it as the P-14 was IN accurate. Need to keep the specs on, I guess.... ~Muir

Thank you for correcting your post,.......I keep mine on a piece of string round my neck at all times.

 

[Southern]

My No4 MkII's were that mid nineties batch. Both new. One with a few nicks in the wood, the other wrapped. Both have .310" groove diameters and shoot .314" cast bullets into MOA with the right load and good eyes. Great rifles. Still, my favorite shooter is a Sparkbrook 1906 No I MkI with cast bullets. I have spent many wonderful hours shooting off hand with that rifle. ~Muir

Can we get the full recipe of that cast load? I have been thinking of shooting mild cast loads in some of my old Lithgows. I picked up a nice SMLE with all matching numbers on everything, from a young guy who was trading in a hand-me-down at a gun show. It is in such good condition for an old war horse. I must shoot it, but I should baby it.

My No.4 MkII shoots S&B 174 ammo and Remington 180-gr RN ammo to the same point out to 200 yards, and into a sub MOA ragged hole at 100 yards. The ladder sight is right on the money as far as I have shot it, 400 yards

 

[cervusnippon2013]

Thanks for the information lads, plenty to digest.

 

[Muir]

Can we get the full recipe of that cast load? I have been thinking of shooting mild cast loads in some of my old Lithgows. I picked up a nice SMLE with all matching numbers on everything, from a young guy who was trading in a hand-me-down at a gun show. It is in such good condition for an old war horse. I must shoot it, but I should baby it.

My No.4 MkII shoots S&B 174 ammo and Remington 180-gr RN ammo to the same point out to 200 yards, and into a sub MOA ragged hole at 100 yards. The ladder sight is right on the money as far as I have shot it, 400 yards

There are two loads: one is from a custom LBT mould cut closely to the Ideal 314-299 that is .317" around with a .305" bore riding nose. I size these to .314" and nudge the nose into the rifling** over a charge of 18.5 grains of Accurate 5744 and a Remington 9.5. The other is a Lee .312-185 sized to .314 and treated the same otherwise. Alloy is 9:1 (old) wheel weights to type metal. For top accuracy, the bullets were heat-treated or simply had the gas checks annealed on a hotplate. I prefer the former. For match grade accuracy, the noses were run into a 3 degree taper die (included angle) and then seated into the lands. Bell the case mouth. No crimp.

One of my finest days of shooting was a buddy of mine and myself out in a red-rock box canyon outside of Cuba, New Mexico. I had a Savage Lend Lease #4 with a 6 groove barrel and my buddy was shooting a Long Branch two groove. We were using the above loads. We sat in the shade of an overhang, drinking iced tea and shooting at a large boulder very far away, watching the silver spatters mark our hits. We still talk of it.~Muir

** before someone brings it up, I have often said that the only time I worry about the lands is when shooting cast bullets.

PS: Nice find on the Lithgow. I walked into Cabelas a few years back and they had a mint, 1946 Ishapore, all matching, for $185. I about broke my wrist getting my wallet out.

 

[East Coast Lifeboat]

Hi lads. Looking to get soon an smle rifle. I will be looking to use it for deer hunting. Is there any way to attach mounts without causing damage to its original state. I don't think my eyes would be up to using iron sights.
Anyone know a reputable seller of these rifles as well.
Cn

Evening. Have a look at Richard Stork (RWS Engineering - Devises) He is a Lee Enfield specialist and authority. I have purchased 3 LE from him over the years and he is a gent to deal with. I would suggest you look for a No4 MK2 as these are the last real Lee Enfields with the best triggers and barrels. The side of the road check for barrel wear is to use a standard .303 Brit cartridge and drop it into the end of the barrel bullet head first. If it drop in easily walk away. If it protrudes its a good indication on a decent barrel. If you are going to buy privately you can meet a seller at range and test fire. RWS engineering will always provide a barrel gauge test with every rifle they sell. There are multiple company's loading soft point .303 in mainly 150gr and 180gr. Finally. Non drill scope mounts for the NO4 rifles can be purchased from Fultons on Bisley and RWS engineering plus a slightly different type from Armalon. Lee Enfield are great rifles that respond well to good marksmanship skills and a bit of practice...

 

[cervusnippon2013]

Thanks for that. I'll add to my ever growing set of notes

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I used to have a No4 mk1 *
The * denoted it was factory refurbished and made up to mk2 standard. I don’t recall where it was made.
It did have further modifications though. At some point in the fifties it was fitted with a 7.62 heavy barrel. The magazine was original 303 though so it didn’t feed well if at all.
The lad I got it off had replaced the butt stock. Rather well to be fair with a decent cheek piece.
The no drill scope mount was not the best. As it was aluminium the front end used to bend if you were not careful. With a subsequent loss of zero. It was similar to one in an earlier post. But made by B Square iirc.

 

[Triumph_Dave]

Hi lads. Looking to get soon an smle rifle. I will be looking to use it for deer hunting. Is there any way to attach mounts without causing damage to its original state. I don't think my eyes would be up to using iron sights.
Anyone know a reputable seller of these rifles as well.
Cn

I have a 1918 smle used for target shooting upto 600 yds. It has a 1920,s parkerhale peephole rear sight. It's been through Fultons of Bisley, who have undertaken their tuning magic on it and it is accurate. In fact it's better than me and my eyes. The rear parkerhale sight for the SMLE gives you elevation and windage in sub MOA and screws directly onto the actions safety catch screws. Plus you can still retain the safety catch. I would go this route as its plenty accurate and no holes to be drilled. The rear sight is not cheap, but they can still be found on Ebay and via dealers. Just make sure it's the variant for the SMLE and make sure you have its mounting screws, having said that there was a chap in the UK selling new mounting screw sets on Ebay this year.. I love my SMLE and although I shoot .270 .308 and 30-06 I think the .303 wins hands down it's a great calibre. I am 64 and still able to shoot well with iron sights, so you don't always need a scope.

 

[8x57]

The no drill scope mount was not the best. As it was aluminium the front end used to bend if you were not careful. With a subsequent loss of zero. It was similar to one in an earlier post. But made by B Square iirc.

I will second that. The B Square no drill scope mount for the Number 4 is far from the best. Far too flexible acts more like a tuning fork than a scope mount.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I will second that. The B Square no drill scope mount for the Number 4 is far from the best. Far too flexible acts more like a tuning fork than a scope mount.

Took me a while to work it out. Even carrying the rifle over my shoulder in its gun-bag was enough to bend it.
My biggest problem was the rear sight was missing so I didn’t have an alternative.

 

[enfieldspares]

I used to have a No4 mk1 * .The * denoted it was factory refurbished and made up to mk2 standard.

No it doesn't. It indicates that it was a Mk I made with the three pieces of the Mk I bolt release catch being replaced by a simple cut out slot on the bolt guide.

The Mk 2 was a post war re-design and of the No4 with the trigger hung from the receiver metal and not, as per the Mk I from the wooden forestock. A Mk I brought up to Mk 2 standards was designated Mk 1/2 and a Mk 1* brought up to Mk 2 standards was designated Mk 1/3.

That's not to say however that the OP's rifle wasn't subsequently modified by say Fulton's or Parker's to have the trigger hung from the receiver metal. But a No 4 Mk I* is as noted above.

 

[cervusnippon2013]

I think I need a book