22lr Subsonic Ammo Problems

[Bigboab29]

Recently i have been having trouble with the new winchester 42 gr subsonics cracking when fired, sounding like a high velocity!! This was happening in both a cz455 with 16 inch barrel and a brno 24 inch barrel and its starting to cause an issue when shooting round the farms. I got various ammo to try - Winchester subsonic 42gr - CCi subsonic 40gr - RWS subsonic 40gr - New Eley Subsonic 38gr. These all claim to be 1050 fps on the box.

Winchester - 5 shots - 1055 - 1060 - 1082 - 1112 - 1121 (Both shots over 1100 cracked very loudly, other shots quiet)
This gives an average of 1086 and an average power of 110 foot pounds with a spread of 66fps

CCI - 5 shots - 1028 - 1045 - 1061 - 1063 - 1066 (All shots quiet)
This gives an average of 1052 and an average power of 98 foot pounds with a spread of 38fps.

RWS - 5 shots - 810 - 811 - 825 - 831 - 856 (All shots quiet)
This gives an average of 826 and an average power of 82 foot pounds with a spread of 46fps

Eley - 5 shots - 815 - 833 - 845 - 849 - 869 (All shots quiet)
This gives and average speed of 842 and an average power of 81 foot pounds with a spread of 54fps.

Just goes to show you the difference between 'similar ammo'

 

[Tulloch]

Recently i have been having trouble with the new winchester 42 gr subsonics cracking when fired, sounding like a high velocity!! This was happening in both a cz455 with 16 inch barrel and a brno 24 inch barrel and its starting to cause an issue when shooting round the farms. I got various ammo to try - Winchester subsonic 42gr - CCi subsonic 40gr - RWS subsonic 40gr - New Eley Subsonic 38gr. These all claim to be 1050 fps on the box.

Winchester - 5 shots - 1055 - 1060 - 1082 - 1112 - 1121 (Both shots over 1100 cracked very loudly, other shots quiet)
This gives an average of 1086 and an average power of 110 foot pounds with a spread of 66fps

CCI - 5 shots - 1028 - 1045 - 1061 - 1063 - 1066 (All shots quiet)
This gives an average of 1052 and an average power of 98 foot pounds with a spread of 38fps.

RWS - 5 shots - 810 - 811 - 825 - 831 - 856 (All shots quiet)
This gives an average of 826 and an average power of 82 foot pounds with a spread of 46fps

Eley - 5 shots - 815 - 833 - 845 - 849 - 869 (All shots quiet)
This gives and average speed of 842 and an average power of 81 foot pounds with a spread of 54fps.

Just goes to show you the difference between 'similar ammo'

This might interest you in regards to speed testing videos I made using both the CZ452 and the CZ455

 

[Tulloch]

I would say the reason for the crack is that you have to be below 1126fps to be classed as sub but your Winnies are running very close to that barrier at 1121fps I would say that actual speed depending on conditions might actually be a fraction over subsonic , depending on the sensitivity of your chrono , No chrono is absolutely spot on .

 

[Jack0106]

They're going trans-sonic. Essentially tickling the sound barrier. It grinds my gears that some ring out like high velocities for exactly the same reason. Seems that the American made stuff is slightly hotter than stuff over here. I usually go with Eleys when shooting in sensitive areas around cattle/horses. Unfortunately, I don't think there much you can do about it except buy slower ammo. I really want to get my hands on some of that CCI QUIET Segmented stuff but can find it anywhere.

What's the point of buying subsonic ammo when it shoots like high velocity. I've also noticed the ones that ring out being less accurate, they're usually flyers that can go anywhere. Probably to do with the concussive force of the bullet flirting with the sound barrier making it unstable.

Out of curiosity, what's the muzzle report like between the RWS and Eleys? (Assuming you're using a mod)

 

[mealiejimmy]

If you want to be as sure as possible that every round is subsonic, then stick with RWS or Eley.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Yorric]

Winnie subs have always been on the edge of supersonic. They shoot ok, but I moved over to RWS for that reason

 

[old keeper]

Never had a problem until last night. Shot a few rabbits with Winchester 42 grain ammo, and two or three shots were so loud I checked the spent cases as I thought I must have mixed some high-velocity rounds. No, I hadn't, they were all Winchester. But they were really loud!

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I have found and after discussion with a RFD about the same problem. It goes in cycles with ammunition of various brands. The reason so I was told being the bolt action users complain about rounds going trans/super sonic. So they tweek them to stop it happening. Then the semi auto users complain that they won’t cycle the action and they up the power a bit to compensate. It would explain why you seem to be fine for so many rounds and then it happens again.
For years I used Winchester subs in my rifle, then without warning they would not shoot. I tried other brands found something it “liked” but had the same crack every other mag problem or inaccuracy. Only to start all over with either another brand.

 

[Cyres]

It looks like the eley are very slow and not as consistent with as the Winnies. If you go onto Eley web site you can locate the QC checker. If you enter your batch no it will give you all the test data for that batch. It would be very interesting if you could do this and post the recorded Eley velocity and SD.

D

 

[levigsp]

Just take them back and tell them why, get replacement from a different batch and you shouldn't have issues. It happens now and again.

 

[Jack0106]

It looks like the eley are very slow and not as consistent with as the Winnies. If you go onto Eley web site you can locate the QC checker. If you enter your batch no it will give you all the test data for that batch. It would be very interesting if you could do this and post the recorded Eley velocity and SD.

D

Eleys are by far the best ammo I've shot through my rifle. The consistency in muzzle report and POI is second to none. Gotta love that super glue Eley smell

 

[Ali]

Interesting subject.
Ironically enough I was just testing sub Winchester, CCI and RWS with my son the other day with our Sako Finnfire varmint. RWS were grouping amazingly well at 50m.My son thought CCI were marginally louder. Not that I could hear the difference being a shipbuilder for many years !

 

[rph6.5]

I swapped to rws in my CZ when the 42 grainers came out, as constantly getting 'crackers' and poor accuracy.

 

[snake_2586]

I swapped to rws in my CZ when the 42 grainers came out, as constantly getting 'crackers' and poor accuracy.

I stopped using the winchesters in my CZ, when they shifted to 42Gr as they do not group well at all, glad I'm not the only one who's gun does not like them.

 

[Scapegoat]

It seems to go full circle. Twenty years ago Eley subs were the round to beat, but then I was given some Winchester Super X to try. Great as a 40, but when they changed to 42s my 452 went right off them. Now I use CCI 40s. Raggy holes though the 452, and they cycle the Rimfire Magic semi very nicely, with similar groups.

 

[Jack0106]

I swapped to rws in my CZ when the 42 grainers came out, as constantly getting 'crackers' and poor accuracy.

RWS making 42 grains now or are you talking about Winchesters. I'd be interested to see those 42 grain winnies on a fox. Seems to be what they were designed for .

My chamber cant take more that 6 before it started to gum up and I need a pliers to remove the brass so it a bit of a no no

 

[Longstrider]

I have known 'subsonic' ammo differ from day to day and location to location in it's performance. The speed of sound is not a constant, and can vary with atmospheric pressure due to weather or elevation, and with humidity. What is subsonic at one place and time may well be supersonic on a different occasion, especially when manufacturers are producing ammo that sits only just below Mach 1 on their own test facilities.

 

[Jack0106]

I have known 'subsonic' ammo differ from day to day and location to location in it's performance. The speed of sound is not a constant, and can vary with atmospheric pressure due to weather or elevation, and with humidity. What is subsonic at one place and time may well be supersonic on a different occasion, especially when manufacturers are producing ammo that sits only just below Mach 1 on their own test facilities.

That's a very valid point indeed but you cant look at the temp and say "oh, it 17 degrees today, guess I can't shoot" or "That hill is too high". Subsonic should be subsonic at least 80% of the time. Seems every 5 round magazine I have a minimum of 3 going Mach 1.

Eley have it down to a T and they've only shaves 10fps of the advertised velocity compared to CCI. They should allow a buffer of some sort I reckon

 

[Maidment78]

Quiet,,, then use the Norma. I am using up my Winnie’s then moving over as they are great.

 

[A Guy Out West]

Eleys are by far the best ammo I've shot through my rifle. The consistency in muzzle report and POI is second to none. Gotta love that super glue Eley smell

Aguilla from Mexico smells really odd too. Do you guys get Aguilla over there? Seems to shoot ok. They have a Super low powered load called Colebri. ( humming bird).