Levi if u read my post before u spat ur tea out I said smooth coated hprs do tend to struggle with cold. Just as someone else had said
I never said they couldn't do it but ur chances of failure will be higher if u pick a bred not suited to the task.
I know a few hpr trainers that train all there hprs to retrieve using FF, not something most would want to do.
I be been about shoots a fair bit, some seasons doing 100 odd days and some big grouse days could have over 100 dogs on them, plus doing a lot of hpr training wknds and watching Ft's when I had my own hpr.
I can count on 2 hands the amount of genuinely decent hprs ive seen working, but according to the owners they're all brilliant. Most are terrible and a terrible hpr is just a nightmare to shoot with.
But that is true off many dog owners all thinking their own dogs are the best ever
I'm not anti hpr and will get others in the future but for real work on UK shoots they are a luxury dog not a work horse. Most just aren't good enough and it takes a hell of a work and experience to get them to even average lab
standard
I've always said and still believe if u don't have ground for pointing and really running ur dogs it's a bit off a waste of the hprs abilities and capabilities attempting to use them as labs.
Country Boy you sound Exactly the same as the dog men after the last war that disliked anything from Europe.
I have had a life time about shooting and dogs, I have not only shot on some of the best shoots in the UK, but Europe as well.
I have shot all British Quarry and seen dogs work them all.
I have seen good and bad dogs of all breeds.
Now I work geese and ducks most of the winter and for a lot of years I have used GSPs, why do you think that is? I will explain, because the cold does not bother them, Because they are very powerful, they are very powerful swimmers. etc.
What does this all mean in the field, again Ill explain," a goose gets shot and sails away 1000 yards over 2 fields, I send the dog that goes over 4 fences to get there, 4 foot fences topped with barbed wire, the dog picks the still live 10lb goose and returns to hand over the same fences"
Now I ask you, how many labs have you seen capable of doing such a things, I doubt you have, Ive seen two in the past 40 years out of many hundred of labs. Ive seen dozens of HPrs capable.
The rivers in Caithness in full winter spate are a sight to behold, I seen a lot of dogs cross them to retrieve over the years and some have managed, but 99% that succeed end up going in at point a and coming out at point d 150 yards down stream.
The reason people gasp at my dogs is that they go in at point a and come out at point b upstream as the power across, only one other none HPR I've seen is strong and that's a Chesapeake dog.
I don't need to go on , you get my drift.
Yes I know there are badly trained GSPs out there, likewise there are hundreds of stunted gsps. People in the UK don't understand HPRs, the majority don't understand that a gsp dog doesn't finish growing much before two, so needs little exercise and lots of food till then, too much exercise both stunts and weakens bones, likewise lack of good food.
My dogs are not the best dogs out there, Ive seen dogs that are far better trained, I admit that, I don't have the energy or health to train like some people.
But I will say, I would match them against anyone's lab in the shooting field, be that partridge, pheasant or duck on a peg, of true wild shooting.
I would not issue that statement about a BMH in tracking or against another HPR.
I agree with you about everybody having great dogs in their own eyes, but I am on about properly trained dogs.
The real downsides are that because GSPs take so long to mature, their real working lifespan is far shorter than lets say a Lab.
They take a lot more training to get them to a good standard as a HPR, to train them to retrieve properly is just as easy as a lab.!
Finally, I know it is possible for any numptie to sit here and spout rubbish on a key board so here is the thing.
Most years I shoot in Yorkshire, Lincoln, Suffolk, Kent, Surrey, Hampshire and Dorset, if you would like to see my dogs perform, let me know and Ill gladly demonstrate. The photos shown , the birds were all picked with 8 dogs handled by two handlers, all hprs and one photo shows the density of scrub retrieved from. 1 hour after we had gone a whole team of dogs went through to look, found one mallard.!
