Varget dilemma

Ade8mm

Well-Known Member
I appreciate the Varget issue has been discussed a few times before on SD (following the REACH regulations)

I have a Merkel double rifle in 8 x 60r. I have a load that regulates just inside moa at 100 yrds (scoped rifle) with 175 g Sierra Pro-hunters and Varget.
(Not too shabby for a 104 old rifle with two tubes )

I have nearly a limit of loaded ammo in the safe and 1/2 a tub of Varget left. This will last a little while, however;

The time will inevitably come when I have to go back to the drawing board.

I am still really perplexed as to what to what powder(s) to try that is/are generally available in the UK

Any thoughts / suggestions gratefully received

Ade
 
I appreciate the Varget issue has been discussed a few times before on SD (following the REACH regulations)

I have a Merkel double rifle in 8 x 60r. I have a load that regulates just inside moa at 100 yrds (scoped rifle) with 175 g Sierra Pro-hunters and Varget.
(Not too shabby for a 104 old rifle with two tubes )

I have nearly a limit of loaded ammo in the safe and 1/2 a tub of Varget left. This will last a little while, however;

The time will inevitably come when I have to go back to the drawing board.

I am still really perplexed as to what to what powder(s) to try that is/are generally available in the UK

Any thoughts / suggestions gratefully received

Ade
Oops. 94 year old rifle...
 
Thanks Dr Strangelove. Much appreciated.

Given she is an old girl I used 8 x 57- (same as 8 x 60 unless one wants to push it out - I don't, no need) load data before with Varget, this is most helpful. Also I see that the max load or the 175grn Prohunter with Ramshot TAC is below my current Varget load

- Ramshot Big Game gives a greater starting load than than my current Varget load for the 175 grn Sierra Pro Hunter

( I would never try and extrapolate anything from load data.)

I will give TAC a whirl with the Start Load and take it from there.

Thanks again

Ade
Screen Shot 2020-01-18 at 17.03.23.png
 
TAC is quite a different ball game than Varget. It is double based spherical powder and a bit faster burning than Varget. I‘m not saying that it won‘t work.
But if you don‘t get along with it you might want to give it a try with Norma 202, which, I feel, is very similar to Varget.
 
Thanks also Rider and Gandy.

(I knew it was most likely never going to be a straightforward exercise but you never know- It was with Varget)

I will let you know how I get on.
 
for 175gn I would try RS60, it works fine in my 7.5x55 with 174gn bullets
Hi Kennyc

Same question. Why?

Not wishing to be seen churlish but is there a particular reason(s) for the suggestion.? I ask as I don't want to be paying - so far, over £200 quid to experiment with loads if at all avoidable.

Ade
 
LOVEX D062, marketed here in the US as Shooter's World "Precision" is Lovex's recommended powder for 8x57. SW's tests show it to be less temperature sensitive than Varget as well. SW does direct comparison accuracy testing against Varget and the D062 won out, for what that is worth. You might look that direction if you can find it.~Muir
 
Hi Kennyc

Same question. Why?

Not wishing to be seen churlish but is there a particular reason(s) for the suggestion.? I ask as I don't want to be paying - so far, over £200 quid to experiment with loads if at all avoidable.

Ade
I'm using it in a similar size cartridge with a similar weight bullet, its a slower powder than N140 so more suited to a heavier bullet, Reload Swiss will also email you load data if you contact them, other than that no reason :)
 
Hi Kennyc

Same question. Why?

Not wishing to be seen churlish but is there a particular reason(s) for the suggestion.? I ask as I don't want to be paying - so far, over £200 quid to experiment with loads if at all avoidable.

Ade
I understand the desire to not 'experiment' but when you hang your hat on ONE powder and/or ONE bullet and do no other experimenting on the side you eventually end up facing that reality. US shooters were pushed to get outside their comfort zone when the silliness erupted several years back. This pushed me to start using the Shooter's World / LOVEX powders. You will find a good load for your rifle. No worries.~Muir

(I envy you your rifle, BTW)
 
If you match velocity that you get with Varget using your new (similar burn rate) powder, doing a load work up, you should find a point there where the regulation dials in.
Ian
 
To all the above respondents, your input is appreciated.

Muir, We live in a constantly changing world so I am "au fait" with changes to my life much greater than this, it is however a damn PITA !

Thanks for your thoughts about my rifle, I have, I think, posted something about it here before, years ago;

If you are interested here is the story in respect of my custodianship;

"
In 2006 I was staying with a friend who runs a shooting school/training establishment in the West County (UK) I had been given the privilege of a look at his personal collection of firearms (wow) and the next time I saw him I asked if he had any double rifles in his collection as at that point I had never seen one in the flesh and would be most interested to have a look.

We went into his armoury and in the corner stood a very shabby gunslip.She was looking very neglected and grubby (which surprised me) with a broken trigger guard and a sheen of grime. My friend asked me if I wanted to buy it. I was even more surprised by this as I knew he never sold any of his collection. This rifle was not part of his collection (fortunately!). It transpired the former owner had emigrated to South Africa a number of years previously with a view to having the rifle shipped out to him. Unfortunately he died soon after arriving there. His sister handed to rifle in to the local police who were unsure of what to do with it so they lodged it with my friend for safe keeping where it had languished in the corner of his armoury for years.

After a few weeks haggling a price was agreed. (The executors of the deceased's estate authorised the sale with monies to be kept by my friend to defray the years of storage costs )

I had an apprentice at Westley Richards fit the scope mounts. When re-fitting the front dovetail the top rib lifted. Not his fault. The area under the rib was extremely rusty. This was probably a blessing as it enabled the rust to be dealt with and rib relayed. The concern was, of course affecting the regulation. Care was taken with a clamp being made to hold the barrels in place. (The barrels had to be re-blacked, I had planned not to do this but it was done out of necessity and she looks all the better for it I think)

I sourced some dies from C&H Tool and die and reformed 7 x 65r brass. She shoots magnificently and I had no need to have her re-regulated after the work had been done. (NOTE, since the above was posted I have now sourced new 8 x 60R brass - .323) Scope is 4 x 32 Swaro Habicht) "

"The dr was originally proofed for the 8x57 IR, shown by the bore/land diameter 7.8mm. As the crown of the “Repair” proofmark is partly stamped over it, the old proof date is 11/29, November 1929. At a later date, not visible in the photo, but before 1940, it was modernized to shoot the 8x60RS (.323”) cartridge, 7.9 mm bore/land, with the 10 gramm = 154 gr pointed Stahlmantelgeschoss = steel jacketed bullet. The DWM load #110 was advertised with a mv of 920 m/s = 3018 fps, 26” barrel. (
- Research courtesy of Kudae on another forum)

Since the above post I have managed to source properly head-stamped 8 x 60r brass

I relish the times I use this rifle. Short and pointy like a shotgun, - 25 1/2" barrels. Loud ! (earplugs essential - especially in woodland) I fancy a Kipplauf, but really, with this at hand hard to justify.

Also with the scope detached (Claw mounts) and tucked in my coat pocket, to passers by, dog walkers etc, it just looks like a little shotgun - (.410 )

Best

Ade :)
 
Last edited:
I’d love to have a rifle like this!
I had the good fortune to recently have to work up loads for my bosses 8x60rs 8x60jr and also zero his 9.3x74r double rifles. Prior to him going driven boar shooting....
Loved shooting them on the range but would be good to have a ‘real go’ with one!!!!
 
Back
Top