6.5 Creed barrel length

[BigPat]

I’m thinking of putting together a dedicated night vision kit and as I already have .308, 6.5x55 for my daily stalks, the Creed appeals as a round I can run out a bit quicker through a heavy profile barrel using factory ammo. The rifle will be either a Tikka or a Sako in Stainless/synthetic with a varmint or super varmint barrel profile. 90% of the time the setup will be used at night from a good rest (hide or vehicle) but I may also use it for the occasional stalk off sticks. Most of my stalking is done between 70m - 150m with Foxes taken out to 250m (again when I have a decent rest and I’m feeling comfortable with the conditions). I’m a fairly big lump so carrying a bit of extra weight in the rifle isn’t a huge issue....after all I could just go on a diet and balance things up!

My questions are....

Barrel length - does anyone have first hand experience of the Creed in both 20” and 24” barrel? What impact does the shorter barrel have on MV or Accuracy?

Weight - is the varmint/super varmint too heavy in 24”? Does the 20” barrel balance things out ok?

Cheers

BP

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

get a short one
no short barrel will be inacurate unless the rifle is inaccurate in the first place
I am utterly sold on short barrels and the drop in MV is inconsequential in both stalking and range use IMO

300m is nothing in the grand scheme of things and the rifles are so much nicer to carry around

 

[ChesterP]

The 24 inch is the shortest you really want if you wish to take advantage of the velocity potential. There's plenty who use a 20 inch but from my range notes and talking to others with the cal, they are sacrificing about 70fps over my 24 inch (same bullet/powder combo) but that was a limited data set so take it as such. The considered optimum barrel length for the heavier 140 class bullets with the Creed seems to be between 26 to 27 inches for the likes of RS62 for max velocities, due to higher powder burn percentages possibly. There's anecdotal evidence suggesting much over this doesn't benefit the shooter or the terminal ballistics. There are a fair few factory options these days at 24 inches and for all practical purposes of balance, handling etc it would seem to make a good argument for itself in the field. As Edinburgh Rifles says above though, for stalking purposes at reasonable ranges, 20 inches is fine. The amount of extra blast is hardly noticeable over the 24 inch variant. If you want to push the bullets hard, and don't care about the extra length, 24 is little more bothersome in the field, especially if using a compact mod.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the modern trend in "the shorter the better" except where a truck rifle is concerned. I prefer the more moderate blast and nicer balance of the longer barrelled sporting rifles.

 

[BigPat]

Cheers Guys!

I should have said, I will probably run it with a muzzle break or if that’s too shouty then I will put a super light mod on (probably the smallest F&D).

 

[Muir]

I have a 20" Tikka CTR and the longer TACA1 (or at least I think it's longer) and I really don't care about MV. I shoot 140 grain bullets and load Hornady's pet match load of H4350 in both rifles. For hunting I bought a couple of boxes of Hornady Precision Hunter and leave them specifically for that purpose.

Don't get a super heavy barrel. You will regret it...~Muir

 

[BigPat]

I have a 20" Tikka CTR and the longer TACA1 (or at least I think it's longer) and I really don't care about MV. I shoot 140 grain bullets and load Hornady's pet match load of H4350 in both rifles. For hunting I bought a couple of boxes of Hornady Precision Hunter and leave them specifically for that purpose.

Don't get a super heavy barrel. You will regret it...~Muir

What problem have you found with the super varmint over the varmint...Weight/balance?

 

[Muir]

What problem have you found with the super varmint over the varmint...Weight/balance?

I don't have either, but I won't hunt with the TAC A1 as it is a heavy monster with just the optics in place. The Compact Tactical Rifle (CTR) is on the upper edge of my weight limit. I have a Ruger Predator 6.5 CM that is very accurate, holds it's zero over long strings, and doesn't have nearly the barrel weight of the other two. A heavy barrel just isn't necessary.~Muir

 

[bryn]

I have a Remington Magpul 700 with a 22inch barrel and reload with RS62 and with 140g round have had MV’s of 2900fps with no pressure signs but have settled on 2750fps with a very accurate 1/4 Moa.
Muir is right...... for a stalking rig don’t go super heavy..........a heavy barrel is no guarantee of accuracy.

bryn

 

[ChesterP]

I don't have either, but I won't hunt with the TAC A1 as it is a heavy monster with just the optics in place. The Compact Tactical Rifle (CTR) is on the upper edge of my weight limit. I have a Ruger Predator 6.5 CM that is very accurate, holds it's zero over long strings, and doesn't have nearly the barrel weight of the other two. A heavy barrel just isn't necessary.~Muir

I can attest to that as I do hunt with the Tikka Tac occasionally! With the S&B it certainly gives you a workout, especially trudging up and down a few steep hills! It was never intended as my stalking rifle but I wanted to try it for deer but reckon I'll just re-barrel my .308 when the time comes with a sporting profile 6.5 barrel. Tactikewel rifles and deerhunting don't make good bedfellows...The 6.5 is certainly one of those rifles you could use with a lightweight barrel and nice 6x42 for an all up weight sub 8.5 lbs which would still shoot sweetly.

 

[25 Sharps]

I’m thinking of putting together a dedicated night vision kit and as I already have .308, 6.5x55 for my daily stalks, the Creed appeals as a round I can run out a bit quicker through a heavy profile barrel using factory ammo. The rifle will be either a Tikka or a Sako in Stainless/synthetic with a varmint or super varmint barrel profile. 90% of the time the setup will be used at night from a good rest (hide or vehicle) but I may also use it for the occasional stalk off sticks. Most of my stalking is done between 70m - 150m with Foxes taken out to 250m (again when I have a decent rest and I’m feeling comfortable with the conditions). I’m a fairly big lump so carrying a bit of extra weight in the rifle isn’t a huge issue....after all I could just go on a diet and balance things up!

My questions are....

Barrel length - does anyone have first hand experience of the Creed in both 20” and 24” barrel? What impact does the shorter barrel have on MV or Accuracy?

Weight - is the varmint/super varmint too heavy in 24”? Does the 20” barrel balance things out ok?

Cheers

BP

If you want fast factory ammo, go for a 24” and don’t get a creedmoor, very little factory ammo lighter than 120 gr and none of it is ’fast’.

If you want fast for foxing and deer legal factory fed rifle then get a .243, run 55/58gr bullets for fox and heavier for deer. OR if your heart is set on a creedmoor start to reload as you can then, like me, run light bullets at 3350-3500 FPS. I’ve done a lot of shooting at night off sticks with a 24” Howa varmint, it’s a lump but not too bad and I’m not a big fella, oh and I’ve just changed from a 24 to 26” barrel

 

[25 Sharps]

Also be aware it will more than likely be a 6 month wait for a 24” tikka which is why I ended up with a Howa as I am impatient

 

[Muir]

The CTR comes in 22 inch. A compromise....~Muir

 

[Mungo]

Interesting that this question comes up so often.

I have a 20” Tikka in CM. It gets 2500fps with 140gr factory ammo. Works very well at sensible stalking ranges. However, the drop becomes substantial after about 170 metres, and the bullet expansion is worryingly poor after about 200m. I use it as a strictly short range walk and stalk farmland gun. It is wonderfully light and very easy to use for snap shots.

I also have a 26” Howa with a varmint barrel. This gets 2690fps with 140gr factory ammo. I will happily shoot this out to 300 and beyond, though it is monstrously heavy.

If I could have found a T3 with a 24” barrel, I would have got that had had one gun to do it all.

Or I could take up reloading....

 

[stubear]

I've read that each inch you take off the barrel loses you about 50ft/s in velocity - so using that rule of thumb you'll get about 200ft/s less in velocity out of a 20" barrel vs a 24" barrel, and the you'll get more muzzle blast as well because the powder has less barrel to burn fully in which is something to bear in mind if you're planning to use a brake.

Personally I would err on the side of the 24" barrel rather than 20" as you'll get less muzzle flip, less blast and more speed.

 

[Deermanagement]

I've read that each inch you take off the barrel loses you about 50ft/s in velocity - so using that rule of thumb you'll get about 200ft/s less in velocity out of a 20" barrel vs a 24" barrel, and the you'll get more muzzle blast as well because the powder has less barrel to burn fully in which is something to bear in mind if you're planning to use a brake.

Personally I would err on the side of the 24" barrel rather than 20" as you'll get less muzzle flip, less blast and more speed.

The reason I went for a 20" barrel was down to ending up with a rifle that was functional and balanced. It was always going to be fitted with a moderator and I went with a mod that had minimum overhang....80mm. The result is a rifle that's a pleasure to carry and handle.

Ref MV's, after looking through some tests like .308 Win Barrel Cut-Down Test: Velocity vs. Barrel Length « Daily Bulletin which indicated less than 25fps loss per inch, I even went for a single based powder to produce around 2700 fps. Not checked the actual velocity as yet, but the swaro ballistic calculator predicted 11 clicks of elevation for a 280 yd target compared to my 100m zero, for 130g Accubonds with a MV of 2700 fps. On test at 280 yds, it was spot on and the 65 creedmoor shoots groups that I find hard to believe. I did read a number of times that a mod may even give you a few FPS back.

Regards, Sika......right bullet from any calibre in the right place will do the job, end of. I've shot enough with the .243 to know that it'll do the job and I'm sure the harder hitting 6.5 will no doubt also do a fine job. If I have any problems, it'll more than likely be bullet selection.

No moderator.......22 - 24"

Moderator........20"

 

[waterford103]

get a short one
no short barrel will be inacurate unless the rifle is inaccurate in the first place
I am utterly sold on short barrels and the drop in MV is inconsequential in both stalking and range use IMO

300m is nothing in the grand scheme of things and the rifles are so much nicer to carry around

DITTO , I run 6.5 creed through a 22" bbl and see little if any difference than when it was 24" except it handles better , varmint weight bbl so good bit lighter too.

 

[david1]

I just sold a Tikka CM with a 24" barrel, I used N550 with 41.3 gr and was getting 2735fps, I have just bought a Sako Black wolf in CM with a 20" barrel still using N550, with 42.2 gr and getting 2746fps both had moderators fitted and both with 143 gr ELDX Hornady bullets.

 

[25 Sharps]

DITTO , I run 6.5 creed through a 22" bbl and see little if any difference than when it was 24" except it handles better , varmint weight bbl so good bit lighter too.

Out of interest do you reload?

QL (which was born out pretty accurate with my 24") is showing circa 3150 fps with a 129 gr bullet and 100% powder burn in my 26" and 3500 fps + with an 85 gr bullet

 

[25 Sharps]

I just sold a Tikka CM with a 24" barrel, I used N550 with 41.3 gr and was getting 2735fps, I have just bought a Sako Black wolf in CM with a 20" barrel still using N550, with 42.2 gr and getting 2746fps both had moderators fitted and both with 143 gr ELDX Hornady bullets.

So your 41.3 velocity shows about 65 fps variance to the 24" barrel, the trouble is its not a fair comparison as the sako may have a tighter chamber, quicker barrel etc. so the only way to get a true comparison would be to chop 4" off of your Tikka.

But you make a good point that if you reload then the loss of velocity can be counteracted by loading to bring the velocity up again.

 

[waterford103]

Out of interest do you reload?

QL (which was born out pretty accurate with my 24") is showing circa 3150 fps with a 129 gr bullet and 100% powder burn in my 26" and 3500 fps + with an 85 gr bullet

Yes , I use Noslers 140 gr accubond and 42gr Ramshot Hunter for around 2670fps , I only dropped around 30 fps after shortening to 22" , still accurate and the deer can't tell the difference.