Imagine phasing out lead is the start of a joint fieldsports future-proofing strategy...

[ndt man]

Nice post pine martin banning lead shot and becoming more environmentaly aware sound good.
We can become the most environmentaly aware group on the planet . This will not make a jot of difference to the likes of wild justice or the league against cruel sports and other groups who want an end to field sports . (Lead shot is just part of the end) . Even when the move over to steel shot happens ? do we really believe the threat from WJ & lacs and others will disappear?? ( Dream on.)

 

[enfieldspares]

Those god-awful steel and nylon Prometheus things have been brought back from the dead.

I remember them. They came with a thing that looked like the cap off a ball point pen to assemble the "slug" into its carrier. I bought one of the plastic boxes of the things. Shot five to test for accuracy and immediately after chucked the rest of the box and the assembler thing in the back of a drawer in the gunroom. Where they stayed unused for years after.

 

[CarlW]

does the membership want BASC to fight losing fights to the bitter end, or to pursue a strategy that inevitably means lots of change, but has the real potential to make fieldsports fit for the future? People are used to change meaning restrictions. Suppose instead it was a shift over time to a more sustainable, lower key, popular (in the sense of non-elitist) form?

As I've previously said, I adore your irrepressibility on this issue; however, this reasoning simply makes no sense, PM.

BASC sacrificed lead in order to protect, not to shift away from, the more elite aspects of shooting. Preserving large-scale commercial driven shooting with impossibly-large bags is the sole reason for this betrayal. Ordinary shooters are paying the price for the increasingly grotesque excesses of a small section of our community: an expense-account minority which has BASC (and its snivelling satellites in the other organisations) in its pocket.

 

[Dalua]

I remember them. They came with a thing that looked like the cap off a ball point pen to assemble the "slug" into its carrier. I bought one of the plastic boxes of the things. Shot five to test for accuracy and immediately after chucked the rest of the box and the assembler thing in the back of a drawer in the gunroom. Where they stayed unused for years after.

I wonder whether you're thinking of Sussex Sabo (sic) pellets? I remember the .22s had the 'applicator' device, but the .177s came ready-assembled. The projectile of both cals was certianly copper-coloured - but I can't remember whether they were solid copper or copper-washed lead. Basically, a sub-cal projectile in a plastic sabot, like Winchester's 'Accelerator' ammuntion with the .22 bullets in .30-30, .308, .30-06.
Like you, I remember being unimpressed by the accuracy of the airgun sabot-pellets, and I think I remember reading that the .30cal stuff wasn't much to write home about either.

Prometheus (of which I still have a box in .177) were a ready-assembled steel tip in a nylon skirt.

What good ideas people were having in the '80s!

 

[enfieldspares]

Yes DALUA I think you are right. Were the Sussex things in a light blue labelled round clear plastic box? And the Prometheus in a square cube like box? Or the other way about?

 

[User00035]

Prometheus pellets were (and are) made by H&N. On Amazon in the US they are being touted as "lead-free".

Amazon.com

 

[Frank Homes]

Prometheus pellets were (and are) made by H&N. On Amazon in the US they are being touted as "lead-free".

Amazon.com

As I understood, Prometheus pellets were made by a small company in London, perhaps they have sold the patent/rights on?

 

[Apthorpe]

Is this not drifting away on a tangent?

 

[User00035]

Is this not drifting away on a tangent?

Not really. A gimmicky and useless air pellet made in the 1970s from steel and plastic makes a comeback as environmentally friendly and "lead-free".

Maybe the name or the patent has been sold, but either way the airgun ammo industry and at least one online retailer has spotted which way the wind is blowing and has resurrected a failed idea to try and make a few quid from a lead free marketing tag.
Highly relevant I'd say and a sign of things to comes in live firing sector.

 

[User00035]

Is this not drifting away on a tangent?

Not as far as a Prometheus pellet will drift.

 

[Apthorpe]

I surrender.

 

[CarlW]

I surrender.

That's what BASC said...

 

[Roestalker39]

Finally had time to have a good, long call with them. They were very candid, helpful and open, although it does sound like it's possibly not the greatest organisation to work in. Still, that's a different problem. Essentially, the guy agreed with my diagnostics and suggestions. He thinks that for the past decade and a bit, BASC has focused its modest campaign and media resources on defending commercial driven shooting and grouse shooting. This has driven a wedge between BASC (and other orgs) and other conservation bodies, to the extent that where there used to be a lot of joint projects on the ground, there no longer are in England & Wales. This damages a key credential, and makes fieldsports' contribution to genuine conservation and biodiversity invisible and inaudible. Big question: does the membership want BASC to fight losing fights to the bitter end, or to pursue a strategy that inevitably means lots of change, but has the real potential to make fieldsports fit for the future? People are used to change meaning restrictions. Suppose instead it was a shift over time to a more sustainable, lower key, popular (in the sense of non-elitist) form?

It is apparently very hard to engage the membership on a campaign. A recent large scale one (by BASC standards) elicited maybe 200 emails. Actually taking the time to write to the council and other levels of the organisation is actually likely to cut through. Gabbing off on social media isn't. Anyway, I'm going to do what he said and write to the Council. And the magazine. And keep coming back to check that someone is paying attention.

Utterly deluded

 

[Apthorpe]

That's what BASC said...

I don't think so. I think they defected.

 

[Pine Marten]

Utterly deluded

Maybe, but you know what is definitely deluded? It's thinking that grumbling on forums and social media will make any tangible difference. BASC and their ilk are the organisations we have available to work with, for better, for worse or quite possibly for no not discernible difference. They're membership organisations with elected leaderships, that no-one can be bothered to vote for. So they just perpetuate themselves in their own image and strengthen the bubble.

Now maybe actively engaging with them will be utterly useless. But NOT doing so definitely WILL be. So I'll try.

I mean come on, all you doughty Brexiteers: where's your populist uprising?

 

[mchughcb]

In the ballot box, remoaner.

 

[Roestalker39]

Maybe, but you know what is definitely deluded? It's thinking that grumbling on forums and social media will make any tangible difference. BASC and their ilk are the organisations we have available to work with, for better, for worse or quite possibly for no not discernible difference. They're membership organisations with elected leaderships, that no-one can be bothered to vote for. So they just perpetuate themselves in their own image and strengthen the bubble.

Now maybe actively engaging with them will be utterly useless. But NOT doing so definitely WILL be. So I'll try.

I mean come on, all you doughty Brexiteers: where's your populist uprising?

Right , actively engaging will do nothing , want to know why ? Because all basc care about is MONEY , a huge drop in membership fees could possibly make them sit up and grow a pair but as long as people like yourself keep paying in “ because they’re our best bet “ then nothing will change , personally I don’t think we could be in a worse position if we had zero representation , if you want to do something more proactive for shooting , quit paying them to sit on thier backsides and go for their corporate lunches

 

[BryanDC]

Maybe, but you know what is definitely deluded? It's thinking that grumbling on forums and social media will make any tangible difference. BASC and their ilk are the organisations we have available to work with, for better, for worse or quite possibly for no not discernible difference. They're membership organisations with elected leaderships, that no-one can be bothered to vote for. So they just perpetuate themselves in their own image and strengthen the bubble.

Now maybe actively engaging with them will be utterly useless. But NOT doing so definitely WILL be. So I'll try.

I mean come on, all you doughty Brexiteers: where's your populist uprising?

Again you have hit the nail on the head. What's the old saying if you change nothing nothing will change. Unfortunately for you there are too many that just sit on their arses doing nothing but complaining and the only way they can think of being proactive is to withdraw their funding. There is nothing proactive in that. If a few more members of BASC had the gumption to actually get involved and try to do something like yourself then there is a chance it could be better.

 

[BryanDC]

Right , actively engaging will do nothing , want to know why ? Because all basc care about is MONEY , a huge drop in membership fees could possibly make them sit up and grow a pair but as long as people like yourself keep paying in “ because they’re our best bet “ then nothing will change , personally I don’t think we could be in a worse position if we had zero representation , if you want to do something more proactive for shooting , quit paying them to sit on thier backsides and go for their corporate lunches

Can I ask you Roestalker. Are you a member of BASC? Or have you ever been a member? If you are or were a member did you ever vote in the elections? Have you ever written to them to express your views on anything in a constructive and interactive manner? Have you ever been involved in any activities at a local level with the BASC? e.g. attended local meetings? Have you ever done anything positive with regards to the BASC, which if you are or were a member is your organisation?

 

[Roestalker39]

Can I ask you Roestalker. Are you a member of BASC? Or have you ever been a member? If you are or were a member did you ever vote in the elections? Have you ever written to them to express your views on anything in a constructive and interactive manner? Have you ever been involved in any activities at a local level with the BASC? e.g. attended local meetings? Have you ever done anything positive with regards to the BASC, which if you are or were a member is your organisation?

Member for around ten years , yes I’ve written to them with my views on various things , but when I saw them for what they were I left , I raised money for them the gwct and the ngo in highseat giveaways and charity stalks , I’ve now left the gwct and ngo and joined the sga