Out of control dogs

[Rafter]

We have very different farms and farming styles in our countries, I think. Other than roads with vehicles driving past (and morons in lycra on bikes), NZ sheep don't see many people who aren't working on the farm. There is no right to roam, and a clear public understanding that dogs worrying stock get shot. I'd hate to farm with every dickhead in creation wandering around - the muck spreader would get a lot more use than strictly necessary, I suspect.
Another difference is that NZ is slightly larger than the UK, and we have a few more than 5 million people - and 35% of the country is public land of one sort or another. The thought of wandering around someone else's property is just wrong to me, but we'll do us, and you can do you. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

 

[Camdig]

OK.
I must live in the wrong part of the country for them.
Thanks for the clarification.

Its all to do with body language, I can walk my pack round sheep and the sheep dont react as the dogs ignore them.
A couple of folk from the village walk dogs on same farm, all the livestock are up and watching the dogs the sheep disappear as far as they can and the ponnys trot up and down, these dogs are husky types on long leads.

 

[Jon P]

Another of my pet hates is "dog exercise fields." Basically its farmers charging people to stand their in their Ugg boots whilst their dog runs batsh!t crazy in a field with high fences and play with any other dogs there. Dogs like black and white. How can they tell the difference between this and a field with livestock in it. Its basically setting dogs up to worry livestock.

We have a few dog exercises fields near us. Most people who use them seem to be the responsible owners wiling to pay £12 an hour to let their dog off lead in a secure area to have a run.
Not every one has access to open fields to exercise their dogs. - biggest issue we have had with livestock worrying is locals dogs disappearing out of insecure garden.
Not had to shoot a dog for a considerable time now. But I know I am up into double figures as used to work on a sheep farm next to a large housing estate.
Never a good day for all concerned.

 

[muddy42]

We have a few dog exercises fields near us. Most people who use them seem to be the responsible owners wiling to pay £12 an hour to let their dog off lead in a secure area to have a run.
Not every one has access to open fields to exercise their dogs. - biggest issue we have had with livestock worrying is locals dogs disappearing out of insecure garden.
Not had to shoot a dog for a considerable time now. But I know I am up into double figures as used to work on a sheep farm next to a large housing estate.
Never a good day for all concerned.

Sorry to be pedantic about dog training, but even if you own thousands of acres, letting your dog off the lead to exercise in a field is frankly really bad training. Dogs like black and white and cant know the difference between an empty field or one with livestock, or a pheasant pen or a busy road. Dog training is about building a connection and communication with the dog. At first that connection is physical via a lead, then a set distance, starting a heel which maybe can be increased to say 15m or so if that's what you want and recall is good. A footpath or right of way is a more controlled environment for this but I'm afraid most dog owners simply don't walk far enough for their dogs needs.

 

[Jon P]

Sorry to be pedantic about dog training, but even if you own thousands of acres, letting your dog off the lead to exercise in a field is frankly really bad training. Dogs like black and white and cant know the difference between an empty field or one with livestock, or a pheasant pen or a busy road. Dog training is about building a connection and communication with the dog. At first that connection is physical via a lead, then a set distance, starting a heel which maybe can be increased to say 15m or so if that's what you want and recall is good. A footpath or right of way is a more controlled environment for this but I'm afraid most dog owners simply don't walk far enough for their dogs needs.

how do you know they are all out of control in the dog park. Most of there dogs would spend most if there lives either on a lead or under close control. Letting a dog run at max speed with its mates for 30 mins a week is not disastrous. A lot of these would be pet dogs, not people wanting a fully trained peg dog waiting for permission to to shift its arse 6 inches whilst it’s owner is missing most of the birds being driven to him . I have kept GWP’s for years, they need to run free regularly to keep them sane- luckily we have a family farm , so no issues for me to exercise, but recall is still 100%.

You underrate the intelligence of your dog/ - once the harness and tracking collar goes on my dog her whole attitude to life changes.

We have the police dogs being exercised in local farmers fields, dogs are give time to run free and run with other police dogs- I assume this does not interfere with their training as a full time working dog .

 

[rollotomassi]

The imposition of a £100 per annum licence fee for pet dogs would go a fair way to addressing the apparent lack of responsible dog ownership.

It tends not to be working dogs which are the cause of the problem, much less working owners.

This penalises responsible owners but have long felt dog ownership needs to be taken a lot more seriously. I do agree a license of some sort and maybe an auditing process would go a long way to preventing dog attacks on animals and humans alike. Not unlike firearm ownership, the place and conditions dog is kept should be subject to inspection. Also help prevent animal neglect/ cruelty.

 

[sauer]

And who would oversee / run that?

Not enough resources or money to implement laws we have as is

Waste of time

 

[Freeforester]

The licence fee might be a good start, I’m not so convinced about the auditing bit. Working dogs get a by.

As for the resources, the money is there all right, it’s just being squandered on so many nonsensical ways, but that will change in due course.

 

[Jon P]

The licence fee might be a good start, I’m not so convinced about the auditing bit. Working dogs get a by.

As for the resources, the money is there all right, it’s just being squandered on so many nonsensical ways, but that will change in due course.

When you start with exceptions , then the legislation becomes unworkable. Working dogs? Sheep dogs, gun dogs, guide dogs. Assistance dogs- mental health dogs?.

Example - When is a spaniel a working dog, do you need a shot gun certificate to prove it? Lots of beaters don’t shoot. - when it retires does it need a licence? - getting legislation written correctly is almost impossible as there are exemptions that people will push to the limits. In the end it is bad legislation and no one enforces it as it is futile with no penalty to the offender.

 

[Rafter]

Dont license dogs - just shoot the ones that are creating a problem.

This discussion makes me laugh. If I'm understanding it right, irresponsible people shouldn't have dogs without some sort of vetting process.
But irresponsible people can have children without any limitations.

I dont think the problem is the dogs.

 

[308rws]

Control dogs
Where I’ve had evidence of a dog killing a deer in public the Police have issued a CPN. Any dog running free in public that is out of sight of its owner and which does not respond to recall should be deemed “out of control”. The owner should be confronted, told as much and warned. If you’re not happy to confront the owner directly, use your mobile to photograph the dog, the owner and/or their vehicle. The Dog Warden and Police can do the rest. The number of out of control dogs has been steadily increasing. Not only is it a public nuisance, it’s a hazard for deer managers. In my experience, it only takes a few owners to get the dog ASBO and word quickly spreads, behaviours improve and/or problem walkers move elsewhere.

 

[GlennUK]

Control dogs
Where I’ve had evidence of a dog killing a deer in public the Police have issued a CPN. Any dog running free in public that is out of sight of its owner and which does not respond to recall should be deemed “out of control”. The owner should be confronted, told as much and warned. If you’re not happy to confront the owner directly, use your mobile to photograph the dog, the owner and/or their vehicle. The Dog Warden and Police can do the rest. The number of out of control dogs has been steadily increasing. Not only is it a public nuisance, it’s a hazard for deer managers. In my experience, it only takes a few owners to get the dog ASBO and word quickly spreads, behaviours improve and/or problem walkers move elsewhere.

Thats interesting, have to be honest and say have on one occasion nearly come to blows (physicality threatened by the other dog owner not me I hasten to add) when i have suggested politely that they need to control their dog. On this occasion the dog was on an extender lead but otherwise not under control, resulting in friction burns to anyone within the radius of the extension FFS/

Never really gave it much thought about taking pictures and reporting the individual to then report them.

 

[muddy42]

how do you know they are all out of control in the dog park. Most of there dogs would spend most if there lives either on a lead or under close control. Letting a dog run at max speed with its mates for 30 mins a week is not disastrous. A lot of these would be pet dogs, not people wanting a fully trained peg dog waiting for permission to to shift its arse 6 inches whilst it’s owner is missing most of the birds being driven to him . I have kept GWP’s for years, they need to run free regularly to keep them sane- luckily we have a family farm , so no issues for me to exercise, but recall is still 100%.

You underrate the intelligence of your dog/ - once the harness and tracking collar goes on my dog her whole attitude to life changes.

We have the police dogs being exercised in local farmers fields, dogs are give time to run free and run with other police dogs- I assume this does not interfere with their training as a full time working dog .

Thanks put down accepted. I know I'm strict. I'm fine with people deciding not to train their dogs, if they are kept on a lead.

Control dogs
Where I’ve had evidence of a dog killing a deer in public the Police have issued a CPN. Any dog running free in public that is out of sight of its owner and which does not respond to recall should be deemed “out of control”. The owner should be confronted, told as much and warned. If you’re not happy to confront the owner directly, use your mobile to photograph the dog, the owner and/or their vehicle. The Dog Warden and Police can do the rest. The number of out of control dogs has been steadily increasing. Not only is it a public nuisance, it’s a hazard for deer managers. In my experience, it only takes a few owners to get the dog ASBO and word quickly spreads, behaviours improve and/or problem walkers move elsewhere.

My understanding is its stricter than that and that technically the law only accepts that a dog on a lead is under control.

Here in Scotland, the police issue a Dog Control Notice, which means a fine or impose conditions like stopping you owning a dog or that specific dogs must be destroyed. The problem is its not a public document (data protection) so its impossible to know if someone is in breach of the notice when you next see them with out of control dogs.

 

[B&W FOX]

 

[User00056]

I once witnessed a loose dog panic my horses by running alongside their fence and barking at them. As it's immediately next to our yard I was able to confront the owners. Their response of 'he's only playing' led to to a fairly robust warning of what was likely to happen if he did that with sheep. They didn't return, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[MarinePMI]

I'm afraid that I have to disagree. I've known a few horses....and dogs, that were real d*cks and it had nothing to do with the owners.

Scott

LOL! There are always exceptions with both, but generally speaking I concur with my original statement.

That being said, I did work around a stud that would try to kick your head off your shoulders if you didn't keep your wits about you when around him. ****er was a real prick, but he was a stud with sought after bloodlines, so the owner just tolerated him.

But by and far, almost every horse or dog that went after me "for no reason", was usually attributed to some past abuse or mishandling (after inquiring of their history), and they were reacting accordingly.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I thought this was another "Suluki's Are Challenging" thread!

K