Great chance to finally make that knife
- Thread starter zambezi
- Start date
reloader54
Well-Known Member
maybe some kind soul would carry out the required heat treatment on your behalf. 
,
,
Nice idea, but this knife is going to be part of my knife making journey. I gotta make these mistakes/learn myself.
Forge fail. It turns out that the gas cylinder that came on loan with my nephew's forge is empty!! 
My Lidl weed burner
looks to run on propane so I wondered how hot it could get the forge...
Forge fail #2. Long before the forge started to glow, the nozzle of the weed burner started to disolve itself. Nozzle fabrication was by solder!
It looks like Amazon are still delivering, so I think I will order a MAPP PRO gun and marry that to the forge. Any better ideas for sub £100?
My Lidl weed burner
looks to run on propane so I wondered how hot it could get the forge...Forge fail #2. Long before the forge started to glow, the nozzle of the weed burner started to disolve itself. Nozzle fabrication was by solder!
It looks like Amazon are still delivering, so I think I will order a MAPP PRO gun and marry that to the forge. Any better ideas for sub £100?
reloader54
Well-Known Member
I have a calor account, they might still be delivering, I had a delivery just before all this cv19 kicked off. neighbour with a caravan might be able to help perhaps? adhering to current guidelines of course.
Wayhay!
A rummage in the garage found a half full cylinder of butane. IIRC, it was gifted to me by my FIL when he changed caravans. Anyway, it marries to the forge burner OK
And although the forge heat up time looks protracted [MAPP PRO would defo heat faster] I nevertheless still managed to get a bolt cherry red in approx 5 mins
Time to build my magnetic detector. All the online data says heat in forge until metal is non-magnetic, heat for another 40 secs ish and then quench. My cunning plan to build a magnetic detector looks like this:
A rummage in the garage found a half full cylinder of butane. IIRC, it was gifted to me by my FIL when he changed caravans. Anyway, it marries to the forge burner OK
And although the forge heat up time looks protracted [MAPP PRO would defo heat faster] I nevertheless still managed to get a bolt cherry red in approx 5 mins
Time to build my magnetic detector. All the online data says heat in forge until metal is non-magnetic, heat for another 40 secs ish and then quench. My cunning plan to build a magnetic detector looks like this:
Today my wife thrust a garden fork in my hand and instructed me to "dig for Britain", so not much knife project progress unfortunately. In fairness, the old girl does most of the gardening, so I do not begrudge helping her with some of the hard yards. The veg patch is turned and de-weeded ready for seeding.
The post-heat magnetism tester I dreamt up above was a fail when using threads. I found that the magnets needed to be very close to the steel to detect predictably/emphatically. So I built a modified version that uses a perspex separator which stops the knife and magnets meeting. Video shows it better than a still image, but media upload limits on this site appear to prohibit movie size files.
As the knife is drawn vertically downward on the far side of the perspex, the bag of magnets swing toward and hold fast to the nearside of the perspex screen.
Reviewing the heat treat criticality associated with 1095 steel, I decided to invest in a couple of things that improve my chances of success. Firstly, a 5.7l gastronorm for the rye oil quench bath
plus an accurate means by which I can accurately verify the household oven's temperature for the tempering cycle 
These will arrive next week, so it is likely I will be employed tilling the soil till then.
The post-heat magnetism tester I dreamt up above was a fail when using threads. I found that the magnets needed to be very close to the steel to detect predictably/emphatically. So I built a modified version that uses a perspex separator which stops the knife and magnets meeting. Video shows it better than a still image, but media upload limits on this site appear to prohibit movie size files.
As the knife is drawn vertically downward on the far side of the perspex, the bag of magnets swing toward and hold fast to the nearside of the perspex screen.Reviewing the heat treat criticality associated with 1095 steel, I decided to invest in a couple of things that improve my chances of success. Firstly, a 5.7l gastronorm for the rye oil quench bath
plus an accurate means by which I can accurately verify the household oven's temperature for the tempering cycle These will arrive next week, so it is likely I will be employed tilling the soil till then.
kimh
Well-Known Member
A magnet max temp is 1414f
Most steels need to be quenched at 1450-1475f
1095 can go to1650f that's what makes it difficult but it will grain up?
You then literally have only a couple of seconds to get from the transition temperature to below 800f
**1095 needs a super-fast quench!! with a vertical plunge!!**...of 1000f in the first second
Forging: heat to 2100f (1150c) don't forge: below 1500f (815c)
Normalising: Heat to 1575f (855c) Cool in still air
Annealing: Heat to 1475f (800c) Furnace cool to 1200f (650c) at a rate not exceeding 50f (28c) per hour
Hardening: Austenitize-Heat to 1475f (800c).
Quench: In thicker sections quench in water or brine with extreme care but can also be oil quenched in sections under 1/4" (6.35 mm)
You are under 1/4" so water is faster? (temperate water if not it will throw it back at you) if you go oil preheat the oil
If it shows signs of distortion from heat or quench you have a small window to get it into the vice to straighten it so be prepared and if all fails you are back on the spade digging in the spuds
Most steels need to be quenched at 1450-1475f
1095 can go to1650f that's what makes it difficult but it will grain up?
You then literally have only a couple of seconds to get from the transition temperature to below 800f
**1095 needs a super-fast quench!! with a vertical plunge!!**...of 1000f in the first second
Forging: heat to 2100f (1150c) don't forge: below 1500f (815c)
Normalising: Heat to 1575f (855c) Cool in still air
Annealing: Heat to 1475f (800c) Furnace cool to 1200f (650c) at a rate not exceeding 50f (28c) per hour
Hardening: Austenitize-Heat to 1475f (800c).
Quench: In thicker sections quench in water or brine with extreme care but can also be oil quenched in sections under 1/4" (6.35 mm)
You are under 1/4" so water is faster? (temperate water if not it will throw it back at you) if you go oil preheat the oil
If it shows signs of distortion from heat or quench you have a small window to get it into the vice to straighten it so be prepared and if all fails you are back on the spade digging in the spuds
kimh
Well-Known Member
High hardness (60 HRC+) increases the edge retention of the steel at the cost of brittleness.
Low hardness increases toughness at the cost of edge strength.
The effect of heat treat varies based on the composition of the steel for 1095 and your current edge I would Clay the edge a tad?
1095 has long been popular among knife makers for its easy workability, high toughness and good edge holding, you will be able also to keep the edge but blood will corrode it so keep it oiled
Low hardness increases toughness at the cost of edge strength.
The effect of heat treat varies based on the composition of the steel for 1095 and your current edge I would Clay the edge a tad?
1095 has long been popular among knife makers for its easy workability, high toughness and good edge holding, you will be able also to keep the edge but blood will corrode it so keep it oiled
spannulman
Well-Known Member
I’m a long way off other people on here lacking forge etc and the skills required but as soon as the first voluntary restrictions came in I ordered a load of bits for making up my own knife. The blade is a finished carbon steel Finnish puukko type, and the other bits from Sweden and uk.
I will be ’knife handle making’ rather than a full knife maker. But will still enjoy it as a change from working on a laptop. I made one using the kits from casstrom and I love using a knife I have built. i like the long handle/ shorter blade Scandinavian style, but the new one will have 5” blade as my short one is a wee bit short for some of the work dealing with larger deer than Roe.
I know this isn’t forging steel and all that but it will keep me from being bored whilst wfh and I wanted to join the conversation.
Another consequence of being on SD this week while suffering cabin fever is that I have been influenced by the thread re someone’s sticky sako stock. Until yesterday I had not realised at the cure for my ugly steyr mannlicher prohunter ( very accurate but not pretty ) is to have it hydro dipped in some kind of realtree camo. So that is the next project after the knife. If I have to be without the stock for a while it won’t matter while we are in purdah.
I will be ’knife handle making’ rather than a full knife maker. But will still enjoy it as a change from working on a laptop. I made one using the kits from casstrom and I love using a knife I have built. i like the long handle/ shorter blade Scandinavian style, but the new one will have 5” blade as my short one is a wee bit short for some of the work dealing with larger deer than Roe.
I know this isn’t forging steel and all that but it will keep me from being bored whilst wfh and I wanted to join the conversation.
Another consequence of being on SD this week while suffering cabin fever is that I have been influenced by the thread re someone’s sticky sako stock. Until yesterday I had not realised at the cure for my ugly steyr mannlicher prohunter ( very accurate but not pretty ) is to have it hydro dipped in some kind of realtree camo. So that is the next project after the knife. If I have to be without the stock for a while it won’t matter while we are in purdah.
Digital thermometer arrived yesterday and I have used it to verify/calibrate the kitchen oven's temperature guage. I am now certain the oven can hold a 200˚C position 
very well with less than 8% temp drift above that setting. That should be good enough to deliver a 62 - 63 HRc temper.
So today I continued to prep the blade: drilled pin
and glue holes plus chamfered hole edges 
Then I marked out and filed the thumb ramp jimping
, with a final 240 grit smoothing 
very well with less than 8% temp drift above that setting. That should be good enough to deliver a 62 - 63 HRc temper.So today I continued to prep the blade: drilled pin
and glue holes plus chamfered hole edges Then I marked out and filed the thumb ramp jimping
, with a final 240 grit smoothing Drilling the scales was a nervy affair as I did not know whether the outward surface would ruck as as the drill bit went in/emerged. No fear! Ebony is a beaut to drill. Lovely crisp hole edging. 
Next job is to get scales roughly cut to shape now their relationship to the metal and each other is set
The 5.7l oil quench bath has just arrived so, subject to gardening duties, I am likely to be hardening a blade later today
Next job is to get scales roughly cut to shape now their relationship to the metal and each other is set
The 5.7l oil quench bath has just arrived so, subject to gardening duties, I am likely to be hardening a blade later today
reloader54
Well-Known Member
Not really. And I do not think it will be the kind of knife where I worry too much about that. I can see how balance might matter to me more on another type of blade.
90mins spreading manure has chomped into my workshop time today. But I do not begrudge helping the missus. She does stirling work growing veg and turning them into amazing meals.
Progress since putting down the shovel has been slow. Primarily because as I get nearer to the finish line, I do not want a hasty move in the 11th hour to consign to the bin all effort invested so far . I made many shallow cuts into the slab material that had to come off
before cutting and sanding to a safe margin.
. Final marriage to the metal's dimensions will happen after the slabs are epoxy bonded to the hardened+tempered blade. Mostly the slab finishing will be by hand.Of course, the leading edges of both slabs will need to be finished before glueing
as you cannot easily work on the wood in that area once bonded to the metal. However, I think that I should now switch attention to the hardening. If the 1095 warps or cracks irretrievably during heat treating, then more detail effort invested in the slabs now will have been a waste.
The 5.7l stainless steel gastronorm oil quench tub is an excellent fit for the blade including forging tongs
. I now need to clear all the wood and steel swarf, as well as all uneccessary tools, so I have a clear area to work. Fire up the forge and don the ppe tonight?Urgh. Forge fail #2.
The butane cylinder does not appear to produce a sufficiently hot flame to bring the blade [past magnetic] to cherry red.
The magnets suspended in the plastic bag swing toward the red hot blade even after 20 minutes in the forge.
I quenched anyway and was not surprised to find metal as soft as it left the factory.
What I plan to do tomorrow is fabricate a concrete wall to reduce the amount of heat lost out the mouth of the forge. I.e. blank off the mouth bar a minimal slot through which I thread the blade. If the forge still fails to reach a sufficiently high temp, I will bite the bullet and order a MAPP PRO torch.
The butane cylinder does not appear to produce a sufficiently hot flame to bring the blade [past magnetic] to cherry red.
The magnets suspended in the plastic bag swing toward the red hot blade even after 20 minutes in the forge.
I quenched anyway and was not surprised to find metal as soft as it left the factory.
What I plan to do tomorrow is fabricate a concrete wall to reduce the amount of heat lost out the mouth of the forge. I.e. blank off the mouth bar a minimal slot through which I thread the blade. If the forge still fails to reach a sufficiently high temp, I will bite the bullet and order a MAPP PRO torch.
reloader54
Well-Known Member
propane pressure is a little higher, I was going to mention it earlier but thought you might get away with it, oh well,
propane pressure is a little higher, I was going to mention it earlier but thought you might get away with it, oh well,
Sorry to correct you, but it is not the gas pressure, at fault, but the regulator used, butane bottles are designed to be used with a BBQ and the reg is set at about 1.5psi?
propane, not for BBQ use has a standard fuel gas thread and you can fit the appropriate regulator, most most of the forges (mine included) use a 5 - 20 psi regulator.
To the op, I would say you are better finding a bottle of propane (you already have the bottle to exchange) rather than buying another torch.
Do you have a caravan centre near you, or a garden centre? both near me sell gas, I think my last 17kg refill was £45.
Or call FloGas and ask for a delivered price, there website says they are operating as normal.
Or call FloGas and ask for a delivered price, there website says they are operating as normal.
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