Budgeting for ammunition

[Pud]

before you spend any money go to the club, talk to members, some will reload and may be will to help you load your ammo ,you buy components etc you go to them they instruct you in the correct procedure/show you what to do ,you buy them a beer/box of biscuits etc you will know you ammo costs and compare to factory.or if it frightens you go fishing or stick with the 22lr at the club/farm.and buy factory for your deer stalking. shooting in the uk of any form is not cheap!.good luck to you.

I will be doing as soon as COVID allows. Theres a new one opened very near by which is great news and ideal really. I dont think the cost of reloading bothers me so much as whether I need to or not. I can imagine that the needs of someone involved in long range target rifle almost guarantees a requirement for home loads, whereas for stalking, the accuracy demanded isn't quite the same. Is that right?

PS. Fishing isn't cheap either these days, not by a Yorkshiremans measure. All these new fangled baits cost an arm and a leg and a pint of maggots is about £3.50. Inflation!

 

[Pud]

Read the Home Office guidance notes - they are on a sticky at top of the Forum - this is what the Police FEO's should be working to.

For Deer Stalking you need a Deer Legal Calibre - slights differences between Scotland and England, but fundamentally a 243 with a 100gn bullet at c 2,900 fps is the minimum for all deer in the UK. Yes there are lots and lots of deer legal calibres, but the vast majority of stalkers use a 243, a 308 or a 270 for the simple reason that ammo is cheap and readily available in just about any gunshop. 243 tends to be the first choice for smaller deer, 270 win is preferred on Scottish Hill for Red, and 308 is now the standard issue for Forestry Commission Rangers and seems to be first choice for many. it used to be £1 a bang for deer cartridges. It's getting closer to £2 a bang.

Gallery rifles are a whole different ballgame, which I have no experience, but have little to do with Deer Stalking, and certainly for Scotland with min Muzzle Velocity requirements of 2,450 fps are not deer legal.

To get an FAC, it's not, thankfully, just a question of ticking the boxes, it's much much more a question of attitude and responsibility. To get an FAC and the authorisation to use a deer legal calibre on your own is even harder.

The best advice for somebody who wants to go deer stalking, is to find somebody who is a guide and who will take you out and you can use their rifle and get experience. If you want to shoot Gallery Rifles - then join a shooting club and get experience that way. But being in a target club is not automatic right to get a stalking rifle.

Shooting of any form can be expensive unless you are being paid to do it, in which case it then becomes your livelihood. The Target Boys can shoot thousands of rounds a year and that's a significant expense in terms of not only ammo, but barrels as well. With Deer Stalking - ammo is the least of your costs.

Any hobby, pastime costs money. Any hobby using expensive equipment, access to land etc etc - even more. But if you stalk regularly you don't a subscription to Satellite TV, Gym, Golf Club etc etc etc. Keep some spare for bribes or a divorce lawyer though

I've been on a guided stalk once before and I'm in the process of booking another one now. I'm sort of viewing it as a gradual process really. No sense in diving in the deepend from the outset, just setting my stall out I think. Planning ahead if you will.

 

[Heym SR20]

Lets put an end to myth that reloading saves money.

You spend money on kit, then you spend money on working up loads, then More money on testing them, then on checking every batch, and then to check that the loads you loaded last week when the moon was close to venus are the same as when the tea leaves aligned with the fog bowl, and then having read this post you need to load some more ad go and check those. Net result is that you shot precisely 1,234 rounds and its now not the loads that are causing the problem, but somebody mentioned bedding so you need a new stock with ceramic fibres and bedded with new fangled gullible compound that needs a new barrel cos some on SD says that barrel life is 1236 rounds and ......,,

it’s A bit like a boat a wooden lined hole in the water into which you poor your life and money.

Buy a reasonable rifle. by a box of bullets. Use five to get it zeroed, so that bullets can hit an iPhone at 50 metres.

Get to within 100m of a shootable deer. Put cross on centre of shoulder, squeeze trigger. Take home deer. Eat deer. Repeat 15 times. Buy new box of bullets. Happy days).

 

[Stalker62]

Lets put an end to myth that reloading saves money.

Where were you when someone suggested:-

"Why don't you take up reloading - it will be good for you".

Good for me? Good for me? It has caused more anxiety and financial hardship than buying my first house.
Your post should be made a "Sticky" over the reloading section of SD - to serve as a warning to those foolish enough to be tempted down that particular ballistic cul de sac.

You forgot to mention "consumables anxiety". Once-upon-a-time I have never heard of the REACH rules - now they keep me awake at night (look at the time of this post for Christ's sake).

Yes Heym - where were you?

 

[Milligan]

Where were you when someone suggested:-

"Why don't you take up reloading - it will be good for you".

Good for me? Good for me? It has caused more anxiety and financial hardship than buying my first house.
Your post should be made a "Sticky" over the reloading section of SD - to serve as a warning to those foolish enough to be tempted down that particular ballistic cul de sac.

You forgot to mention "consumables anxiety". Once-upon-a-time I have never heard of the REACH rules - now they keep me awake at night (look at the time of this post for Christ's sake).

Yes Heym - where were you?

There there, put down the neck reamer and bushing dies and step away from the comparator... Sun's getting real low.

 

[8x57]

Pud you say that a new indoor range is opening close to you and that this will open up opportunities for you. You don't say whether this is a commercial range or a facility run by a democratically run club. You also don't mention or if you have I missed it is whether you currently have a FAC.

If you don't have a FAC for various reasons you can't really do much about it for a while until the Covid 19 virus threat abates and things get back to some sort of normality. Then I would suggest that you enquire into joining a proper democratically run rifle club that offers the type of shooting disciplines that interest you. That type of club is generally geared towards making shooting as affordable as possible for their members as opposed to a commercially run concern that obviously needs to turn a profit for its owners. When you are in such a club you will have a much better understanding about budgeting for your ammunition needs.

 

[Pud]

Pud you say that a new indoor range is opening close to you and that this will open up opportunities for you. You don't say whether this is a commercial range or a facility run by a democratically run club. You also don't mention or if you have I missed it is whether you currently have a FAC.

If you don't have a FAC for various reasons you can't really do much about it for a while until the Covid 19 virus threat abates and things get back to some sort of normality. Then I would suggest that you enquire into joining a proper democratically run rifle club that offers the type of shooting disciplines that interest you. That type of club is generally geared towards making shooting as affordable as possible for their members as opposed to a commercially run concern that obviously needs to turn a profit for its owners. When you are in such a club you will have a much better understanding about budgeting for your ammunition needs.

No FAC, just an SGC at present. It's commercial with a members club attached. The next nearest one is 40 minutes drive away and I was a member for a while some years back. It was also pay and play with a club attached. The main challenge I have, like many people these days, is time. Adding 80 minutes of driving on to every session was just not practical in the end. I was spending an entire afternoon for 1 hour on the range and I dont think it had bookable slots. If traffic was bad it was even worse. I had to plan a trip well in advance, like a stalking trip, which made it more difficult to put the time in. The new indoor range is 15 minutes away which will hopefully help.

I wont be able to do anything about it for a few months due to COVID in any case as you say, so I'm using the time to learn as much as I can. Theres no rush, I first filled out an application years ago but never got around to fully committing again due to time, so another few months wont make much difference.

 

[Jon P]

Not really local to you but it’s a good selection of ammo and enough to give you an idea of factory ammo costs:-

Dauntsey Guns, Wilts, Wiltshire's Friendly Gun Shop: Ammunition, Centrefire

Wiltshire based gun and shooting equipment shop serving the Chippenham, Swindon, Bath and Bristol area, Ammunition, Centrefire

www.dauntseyguns.co.uk

I am pretty sure the next post after mine will tell you to start home loading your own. I don’t as I don’t shoot enough so I will just answer your question with the above link and let others help you with home loading.

I Have driven from South Wales to Dauntseys In the past as the 300 win mag Ammo was 1/4 of price compared to my local shop who wanted £5 a bullet Would definitely recommend them to anyone.

 

[Loler UK]

.223 / 222 will work out the cheapest centre fire ammo factory or reloading.

That said the gun you buy might shoot some ammo well anmo others bad so an expensive match barrel gun might group ppu 0.5moa saving you tons if you buy factory ammo, a cheap light barrel gun might not group anything but expensive ammo or home loads that take 100 rounds to develop and allot of heart ache.

Id say focus on one discipline at a time, if it's stalking you won't need much ammo, if it's targets & /or hand loading forget 6.5 and master your craft with .22lr and / or .222/.223 then when you do start developing loads / spending allot of time on the range with a 6.5 you'll have learnt your mistakes at less expense.

 

[Pud]

.223 / 222 will work out the cheapest centre fire ammo factory or reloading.

That said the gun you buy might shoot some ammo well anmo others bad so an expensive match barrel gun might group ppu 0.5moa saving you tons if you buy factory ammo, a cheap light barrel gun might not group anything but expensive ammo or home loads that take 100 rounds to develop and allot of heart ache.

Id say focus on one discipline at a time, if it's stalking you won't need much ammo, if it's targets & /or hand loading forget 6.5 and master your craft with .22lr and / or .222/.223 then when you do start developing loads / spending allot of time on the range with a 6.5 you'll have learnt your mistakes at less expense.

Good tip. I once had a cheap but reliable .45 auto. Took it to the range one day with a few boxes of wolf. It jammed literally every other round. Not only that, the ammo was utterly filthy to shoot, I mean just garbage. After only two magazines the gun needed cleaning. Duly cleaned it and went back off to the shop. A short while later back to the range with some boxes of federal match something or other and no problems at all then.

In truth, I thought that with hunting rifles being bolt action they would be somewhat more accepting. Showing my naivety again

Does anyone know if PPU centerfire brass suitable for home loading? I think I have some laying around somewhere. Snag is its 308, but I may end up going down that route yet. Still trying to weigh it all up.

 

[Loler UK]

PPu is excellent brass for the money and (in my experience) the fact that it is softer allows for better early expansion with light and / or slow burning loads.

I use the factory ammo for 'getting on paper' when zeroing in some calibres and have clients & friends use it for allot of training and re-load the once fired brass with custom accuracy loads.

 

[andyk]

PPU brass has done me fine for practice at the range, in .223, 6.5x55 and .270. I buy it loaded and then reload the brass, which seems quite economical. Most of mine is only 2-3 times fired but some (which I used for test loads) was on the 5th/6th firing when I retired it, and that was out of caution. Whilst it isn't Lapua, if you just want to shoot and not spend too much it really is hard to beat. The loaded stuff can cost less than a lot of brands charge for unprimed brass.

 

[tom308w]

buy some loaded rounds in ppu to try and keep the brass for reloading

 

[Rutland lad]

Reloading - mmmmm.

100 rounds of Barnes TTSX in 120 grain = £95
100 Lapua 6.5 x 55 cases = £75
One tub of RL17 to fill above = £80
Total = £250
Hours spent in tunnel range and outdoor range doing ladder test = lots and lots of time........

End result, very poor grouping, and a very frustrated me.

One box of SAKO Gamehead Pro in 130 grain £34 = One ragged hole at 100m

As we well know, there's many reasons for this, and yes I've still got lots of powder for reloading.
I will buy Barnes TTSX/TSX in 130 grain when I can find some and try again next year, when the memory of all that wasted cash and time has dimmed a bit.

My advice, find some factory rounds that do what you need and buy a few boxes. And by the way - those SAKO rounds are now £41 a box.
Maybe I should try reloading ............

 

[Pud]

Reloading - mmmmm.

100 rounds of Barnes TTSX in 120 grain = £95
100 Lapua 6.5 x 55 cases = £75
One tub of RL17 to fill above = £80
Total = £250
Hours spent in tunnel range and outdoor range doing ladder test = lots and lots of time........

End result, very poor grouping, and a very frustrated me.

One box of SAKO Gamehead Pro in 130 grain £34 = One ragged hole at 100m

As we well know, there's many reasons for this, and yes I've still got lots of powder for reloading.
I will buy Barnes TTSX/TSX in 130 grain when I can find some and try again next year, when the memory of all that wasted cash and time has dimmed a bit.

My advice, find some factory rounds that do what you need and buy a few boxes. And by the way - those SAKO rounds are now £41 a box.
Maybe I should try reloading ............

Out of general interest, what was the problem with the loading you tried initially? Not that I'll completely understand the answer of course, but it's good to understand the type of problems encountered.

 

[NP435]

Handloading will reduce cost per shot after the brass is once fired. The cost of tooling isn't cheap but once set up a die set perhaps a shell holder and your set. trimming tools abound with more changes than I can list. Tumblers to clean are about the same. If you have the making's ammo is there even when the shops have shortages all it takes is lay in a stock. Best wishes for good shooting.

 

[NP435]

Good tip. I once had a cheap but reliable .45 auto. Took it to the range one day with a few boxes of wolf. It jammed literally every other round. Not only that, the ammo was utterly filthy to shoot, I mean just garbage. After only two magazines the gun needed cleaning. Duly cleaned it and went back off to the shop. A short while later back to the range with some boxes of federal match something or other and no problems at all then.

In truth, I thought that with hunting rifles being bolt action they would be somewhat more accepting. Showing my naivety again

Does anyone know if PPU centerfire brass suitable for home loading? I think I have some laying around somewhere. Snag is its 308, but I may end up going down that route yet. Still trying to weigh it all up.

I shoot wolf now in .45 and .9mm nato. Yes its dirty and in my experience it always works. I shot it in IDPA competition and over the last several years 3k rounds fired. My pistols are 1911 Springfield and Two Browning P-35 High powers. I have never managed to make them jam with fouling, cleaning them at 1k shot intervals. PPU is a decent product I used it in 7.5x55 Swiss.

 

[Pud]

I shoot wolf now in .45 and .9mm nato. Yes its dirty and in my experience it always works. I shot it in IDPA competition and over the last several years 3k rounds fired. My pistols are 1911 Springfield and Two Browning P-35 High powers. I have never managed to make them jam with fouling, cleaning them at 1k shot intervals. PPU is a decent product I used it in 7.5x55 Swiss.

Interesting but I'm not surprised as browning and springfield are top notch makers. I have to say it didnt jam a 1940's 1911 owned by my buddy, just mine which was a cheapy taurus pt 24/7 (45 acp) I think was the model (sub $500). Hangup after hangup. I've since swapped it for other 1911 patterns and recently a Kimber pro carry 2, again in 45, which obviously I very rarely get to shoot living in the UK but thats OK, makes it special each time. Still haven't got my dream wilson combat yet but one day, one day...

I guess it reflects what Loler UK said about it being the combination of firearm and ammunition that either work, or dont.

 

[NP435]

Interesting but I'm not surprised as browning and springfield are top notch makers. I have to say it didnt jam a 1940's 1911 owned by my buddy, just mine which was a cheapy taurus pt 24/7 (45 acp) I think was the model (sub $500). Hangup after hangup. I've since swapped it for other 1911 patterns and recently a Kimber pro carry 2, again in 45, which obviously I very rarely get to shoot living in the UK but thats OK, makes it special each time. Still haven't got my dream wilson combat yet but one day, one day...

I guess it reflects what Loler UK said about it being the combination of firearm and ammunition that either work, or dont.

 

[NP435]

One of the Browning's was produced in under license in Argentina the other Night Hawk custom. A worlds change in trigger and fit and finish. That being said the Argentine pistol is what i was competing with at the time with a pitted barrel and all. Some guns just wont function with some ammo as Loler UK said. Wilson is superb as you know. Were it me I would look at Les Baer. I once knew a shooter that insisted the primer sealer on wolf ammo tied up his firing pin ( the gun was EAA Witness). I offer'd cash on the spot for the remaining 900 rounds and he was insulted. Must have been the whole yes it's dirty and I clean at 1k intervals that bothered him. Best wishes for good shooting.