James0586
Well-Known Member
My butty had a 3/4 Mali 1/4 pit from Romania and that had incredible potential in the right hands.... not for the faint hearted
Price of dogs
- Thread starter Henroy
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Gsd99
Well-Known Member
@James0586 id like to see a bullgrey x mali, now that could have potential as a pig dog
CarlW
Well-Known Member
The problem when crossing like that, Josh, is that it is very difficult to predict which characteristics the pups will take from each breed. You generally end up with dogs that are not as good as the parents...or you have to cull...a lot...and I mean an awful lot...over several generations.
Although illegal in the UK, pitbulls (proper ones) are almost the perfect dog: cross 'em with anything and you just end up with a sh1t pitbull. Likewise a mali: cross it and get a load of sh1t malis.
You do get lucky (James' guy sounds like he had a good one), or you have to change your luck by killing a lot of dogs: not for the faint of heart...
williamwansbeck
Well-Known Member
I remember when the cross breeding for pets started a few years back,a guy i worked with his wife wanted a small dog good with kids and did not cast,they got a Patterdale cross miniature poodle online,11 moths later he was wanting shot of it (cast hair continuously and had bit him the wife and both the kids)just just cannot predict what the cross will throw?.that's why pedigrees came about originally surely.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
I like that example a lot...
Gsd99
Well-Known Member
@CarlW issues associated that some crossbreeding brings up are interesting but is that not essentially what a lurcher is? A long dog crossed with a sheppard/terrier of some description? It is interesting when you look at a lurcher i suppose you dont think of all the dogs that are not up to scratch that get disposed of... i suppose that has to have been true for the vast majority of working terrier breeds in their early years?(i assume?)
I think we would agree on the types of people that shouldnt have these types of dogs (malis/pitbulls) and would hope that if somebody did look at crossbreeding they would at least have half a clue about what theyre doing.
I think we would agree on the types of people that shouldnt have these types of dogs (malis/pitbulls) and would hope that if somebody did look at crossbreeding they would at least have half a clue about what theyre doing.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Either they kill a lot or they produce sh1t dogs. No other way with crosses.@CarlW issues associated that some crossbreeding brings up are interesting but is that not essentially what a lurcher is? A long dog crossed with a sheppard/terrier of some description? It is interesting when you look at a lurcher i suppose you dont think of all the dogs that are not up to scratch that get disposed of... i suppose that has to have been true for the vast majority of working terrier breeds in their early years?(i assume?)
I think we would agree on the types of people that shouldnt have these types of dogs (malis/pitbulls) and would hope that if somebody did look at crossbreeding they would at least have half a clue about what theyre doing.
A pit x mali (apart from exceptions) will be a poor pit and a poor mali: it won't be a superdog, as people expect
Dutch herder/mali crosses are a bit different: nowadays (at least with the KNPV lines) they are just colour variations of the same breed. A given litter will produce both 'herders' and 'malis'.
James0586
Well-Known Member
He did have a good one Carl but he only trained the bite!
Not difficult in the grand scheme of things. I would have been more impressed if he could have done an article search, object guard and perfect obedience rather than show it a sleeve and it goes off!
Incredible bite but lacked the thought process and became very unpredictable when engaged on the sleeve. He was very awkward to train and difficult to work on the sleeve....
Would have been an absolute machine in the right hands.
Not difficult in the grand scheme of things. I would have been more impressed if he could have done an article search, object guard and perfect obedience rather than show it a sleeve and it goes off!
Incredible bite but lacked the thought process and became very unpredictable when engaged on the sleeve. He was very awkward to train and difficult to work on the sleeve....
Would have been an absolute machine in the right hands.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
He got a good one. However, as you know, it is too big a gamble. Nine of its litter-mates probably belonged in the river...
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
The book I mentioned previously goes into detail about the study on Russian artic foxes and how they were bred for more domestic friendly traits. Only the best (tamest and friendliest) of each litter were bred from and that took nearly 6 generations to see noticeable differences and 15 generations before there were consistent differences.
Breeding two pedigree dogs on a one off you can never be sure what you'll get.
James0586
Well-Known Member
Your right, the 2 that came over a dog and a bitch were good hard dogs but what they had in jaw strength they lost in trainability and brains.He got a good one. However, as you know, it is too big a gamble. Nine of its litter-mates probably belonged in the river...
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Only those registered under the Bloedlijnen system are integrated. The ones under national kennel clubs are (generally) kept more separate. The former are often (but not always) the better dogs.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Yep. Flick a coin.
Or, devote your whole life to developing a new breed and then look back as a disappointed old man as you realise you've just reinvented the Jack Russell...
PS I apologise to the OP for dragging this off-topic.
Free range rob
Well-Known Member
If I had a quid for every time Iāve heard that........@CarlW Although im sure the idiots will still stop you and say are you sure its not a GSD regardless
A story worth illustrating:
How Siberian geneticists domesticated the FOX
It took evolution 15,000 years to turn wolves into dogs. Now, scientists from Novosibirsk have succeeded in breeding domesticated foxes in just 60 years.www.rbth.com
And for working dogs this one is even better ... jackal-dog hybrids from crossbreeding North Caucasian [Golden] jackals and Laikas.
We have a bog standard street bred mongrel Thug-U-Laika as a companion for our previously abandoned Siberian Husky, a world apart
A jackal's nose for the job
Specially-bred canines helping to find explosives at Moscow airportwww.rbth.com
Bridon0320
Well-Known Member
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
On the other hand - if your dogs are cheaper than the majority on the market, you will attract people who are just looking for a cheap (for the time) dog and they are rarely, if ever the good homes.
How many people will look at their dog and HONESTLY say, āthese arenāt the best dogs going so Iāll make them a bit cheaper than a champion bred, proven, health tested pup in another litterā - I see quite a few litters bred from parents that should never be bred from - useless but they still attract top money. All you ever see is āmy dog is wonderful and lovely and pups are going to be outstandingā
How many people will look at their dog and HONESTLY say, āthese arenāt the best dogs going so Iāll make them a bit cheaper than a champion bred, proven, health tested pup in another litterā - I see quite a few litters bred from parents that should never be bred from - useless but they still attract top money. All you ever see is āmy dog is wonderful and lovely and pups are going to be outstandingā
sportingspaniels
Well-Known Member
If you look at each litter seriously you will find 90% should not have been bred I would think ? I have NEVER seen a litter advertised as ā bitch isnāt too bad but to be honest Iāve bred the litter because I need the moneyā when almost EVERY litter will have been bred like this. The notion of a higher price means a better home is pie in the sky , you only had to go to Battersea dogs home, pre COVID, to see it full of expensive pedigree dogs. āForever homeā is also a Disney way of looking at things. Does it make the breeder seem more caring when they put that ? Itās total nonsense. No man on earth can guarantee a home for life to a dog.
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