Shooting Ptarmigan/Grouse with a rifle

[Apthorpe]

It's about on a level with shooting at a deer that's broadside on at 100yds and totally unaware of your presence. Funny I don't often see that practice being condemned!

That's true, but I don't often see the act of shooting a deer at 100 yds described as being sporting either. The extended stalk to get into position often is described as sporting.
Deer are about 100 times more abundant than ptarmigan too, which I think is a worthwhile consideration.

 

[User00040]

Looks like you'll continue not to have access to ptarmigan; just a reminder that at the turn of the 20th century there were blackgame to be found in every county in Britain, ptarmigan have a very fragile toehold on the high tops, and are more disturbed by hillwalkers and their loodse running dogs then ever. Thank goodness the keepers of such game here aren't so persuaded by your notion/interest, though I readily accept that things are different, both culturally and in terms of abundance in Scandinavia.
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Sometimes the desire to conserve something comes out of the desire to both see and sometimes hunt them.

I doubt I'll have the money and desire to buy an estate anytime soon (or ever!), but I'd wager that the blame for declining black grouse and ptarmigan numbers lies more at the feet of estate owners (whether, private, public or quango) many who have neglected their grounds out of ambivalence, spite, ignorance or the alleged lack of funds.

If there is no interest (or even awareness) about these magnificent birds then they will decline further and probably disappear. Better to stimulate a little discussion and interest about them.

I ghillied on an estate which had ptarmigan and black grouse, but any effort for counting or pest & predator control out there was considered 'not worthwhile' due to them being relatively inaccessible by road and too far away from the pheasant pens... not to mention that there was no shooting interest.

 

[JMikeyH]

I'll try to deal with this detailed reply in order:
"For food?" Well now, let's look at that. It appears from what I read on here that a lot of people don't shoot for food, but for money, or for conservation or crop protection reasons.
I kill animals for a variety of reasons including pest control, conservation and because I enjoy it. I eat most of them, but it's not always the primary consideration.
We can ignore the advice of the Food Standards agency if we want, but the current advice is to discard all meat within 10cm of the bullet path; that doesn't leave much of either bird to eat. Everyone's dining choices are different, but I don't think I'd choose to dine off a species with a low population and which isn't thriving. I fully understand that there are plenty of people who want to eat the last bluefin tuna, or caviar from the last sturgeon on earth. I am not persuaded by the argument that such practices are ethical.
I know people shoot ptarmigan frequently in Norway and other parts of Scandinavia, but the populations there are orders of magnitude larger and the human population an order of magnitude lower.

In short, I'm aware of the legality, my point was that there is a distinction between legality and wisdom.

The most important thing when killing an animal is whether you're damaging the prospects of the species. Respect for the animal makes not a jot of difference to the animal- it's more of a figleaf for the hunter. It's entirely obvious if you compare a hunter who shoots a rabbit with total disregard for the animal or concern for its suffering, with a hunter who respectfully shoots a northern white rhino. I don't think many would consider the latter definitely more ethical than the former. Being sporting is not a case of stroking one's ego, rather the reverse; but unnecessarily using animals as target practice may be.

It may well be possible to ethically shoot a ptarmigan with a rifle, but I'd contend not in the UK and would point out that your comment entirely ignores any consideration of conservation.

Fair points, and you are correct that in my reply conservation had not crossed my mind. With an estimated 4000 breeding pairs in the UK it would be prudent to NOT shoot much Ptarmigan in the UK though this may stimulate better conservation efforts as seen elsewhere in the world. However, respect for the animal is much more than a figleaf for the hunter, but that is another topic.

I appreciate the measured reply, in the interest of keeping the thread on-topic I shan't write out the mental acrobatics and save that for another thread

Kind regards,

 

[VSS]

That's true, but I don't often see the act of shooting a deer at 100 yds described as being sporting either. The extended stalk to get into position often is described as sporting.
Deer are about 100 times more abundant than ptarmigan too, which I think is a worthwhile consideration.

Agreed about ptarmigan. I wouldn't shoot one. Other gamebirds are plentiful, and shooting them with a rifle is just as "sporting" as stalking deer.

Last December, my wife said she wanted the breasts off 4 pheasants for something she was planning on cooking up for Christmas dinner. It took me 2 days to get enough, stalking at dawn and dusk with the 22lr, with each one of the 4 cleanly head shot at 20-30 yards. What's not to like? Four enjoyable stalks and four birds in the bag! Would I do the same with grouse, if given the opportunity? You bet I would!

 

[Freeforester]

Sometimes the desire to conserve something comes out of the desire to both see and sometimes hunt them.

I doubt I'll have the money and desire to buy an estate anytime soon (or ever!), but I'd wager that the blame for declining black grouse and ptarmigan numbers lies more at the feet of estate owners (whether, private, public or quango) many who have neglected their grounds out of ambivalence, spite, ignorance or the alleged lack of funds.

If there is no interest (or even awareness) about these magnificent birds then they will decline further and probably disappear. Better to stimulate a little discussion and interest about them.

I ghillied on an estate which had ptarmigan and black grouse, but any effort for counting or pest & predator control out there was considered 'not worthwhile' due to them being relatively inaccessible by road and too far away from the pheasant pens... not to mention that there was no shooting interest.

How much, the wager?

Changes in agricultural and land practices did for the blackgame, but if you want to blame this on the 'estate owners' then perhaps the government's exhortation of farming interests to increase efficiency to feed the masses should equally be in the frame? Or its drive for strategic timber reserves? As if third rate firewood is a worthy trade for such.

Tragedy of the commons, it is modern mankind's perpetual blind spot, thank goodness for more considered interested parties who have decided to conserve the ptarmigan on their hills. Better still, why not try to educate the access takers who with their loose dogs impinge on their haunts without such consideration.

Agreed about ptarmigan. I wouldn't shoot one. Other gamebirds are plentiful, and shooting them with a rifle is just as "sporting" as shooting deer.

Last December, my wife said she wanted the breasts off 4 pheasants for something she was planning on cooking up for Christmas dinner. It took me 2 days to get enough, stalking at dawn and dusk with the 22lr, with each one of the 4 cleanly head shot at 20-30 yards. What's not to like? Four enjoyable stalks and four birds in the bag! Would I do the same with grouse, if given the opportunity? You bet I would!

You'd be breaking the law, Tim, the grouse close on Dec 10; now I'm sure your own Dot likes em well hung , but....

 

[Heym SR20]

For birds use a solid bullet. They pencil straight through. Shot enough guinae fowl with 22lr Solids to know that it works very well. Personally have no issue with stalking birds and taking with a rifle, and taking just one or two for the pot, if the population allows. Grouse in particular do not want to be densely populated as disease spreads rapidly, so a little selective thinning is good management. Ditto for mountain hares, deer etc.

I expect hunters elsewhere really do not understand our fixation with rearing phaesants, putting them in a pen, releasing them and the a few weeks later flushing over the heads of guns driven to their pegs and shooting more birds in one day than hunters in most other countries shoot in a lifetime.

And enjoy the wilds of Scotland whilst they are still there. I suspect in 20 years time the wild areas will just be full of Windmills.

 

[Pedro]

Over population breeds disease and destroys the countryside in which the animals live. Two good examples of this are areas where too many pheasants are released and, um, humans.

Bearing in mind Edward VIII's quote about us being merely temporary custodians of the countryside with a duty to pass it on in better condition (sorry, can't recall the exact quote, but I expect you know the one) I think it's incumbent on us to ensure any species survives and if possible, prospers. So shooting game birds with populations that are struggling is not something I condone.

Although I do thoroughly enjoy a day on the pheasants (ethically released of course) and would not entertain shooting one on the ground with any firearm (apart from relief from misery) myself, if that is someone's sport then good luck to them. I suspect that a bag from shooting game birds on the ground would in any case be smaller than pheasants flushed to guns.

 

[Jagare]

Go on Youtube and put, vinterjakt på ripa, in search. Loads of vids on ptarmigan hunting with a rifle. Enjoy

 

[alberta boy]

It's standard practice to shoot some game birds with 22lr's and reduced velocity centerfires here . That only applies to forest dwelling species like Ruffed Grouse , Spruce and Blue grouse and Ptarmigan in the high country . Plains species like Sharp Tails and Sage Grouse are taken with shotguns , it's a matter of practicality not sportsmanship , you can't see them until they flush . It's illegal to use anything but a shotgun on migratory birds . We don't have the same traditions as the UK when it comes to Grouse hunting , it's not good or bad , it's just different . I don't have a problem with selling the meat from deer in the UK , but you would be a pariah here if you advocated for it in this country . Different strokes .

AB

 

[NP435]

In my state you may shoot grouse with 22lr or shotgun. Grouse 60ft up a swaying pine tree is rather more difficult to shoot than when on the wing with my trusty 12 gauge.
If legal to do so I would shoot geese with the 22lr happily.

 

[Cyres]

If I want a nice pheasant for a roast I head shoot them with the .22lr. Quite easy in Devon where I shoot them out of my guest bedroom window as the patrol the adjoining field.

Watch life in the Artic several episodes on shooting ptarmigan with .22 lr.

D