Guardian - Golden Eagle Tag found near Grousemoor - who are these idiots ?

[Freeforester]

Can't speak of moorland in S Scotland, but had a picnic on a nice day above Grinton in the N York Moors a few years ago, the moor was literally teeming with life, all manner of young ground nesting birds, etc, also saw a kestrel, which are hereabouts now very scarce as compared to only a few years ago.

On the matter of vegans against shooting, I've had encounters/discussions with student-activist types who were not 'fine' with it, nor the notion of making the best use of a sustainable, renewable resource, somewhat in defiance of their own biological make-up (not to judge on the lurid hair colours being sported, or how that is produced and got into a bottle). They affected to have no concept of an acceptable balance, sustainable management and harvest, nor rights versus responsibilities/live and let live, just doctrine without thought, 'shining-path' intolerance, esp to anyone with skin in the game, and every alternative to their way of thinking was wrong, all the usual pseudo-green woke inculcated nonsense. They still had much to learn.

 

[baguio]

Yup but it's recreational shooting that's at risk. So yes, it can happen. And given how divisive shooting is, and how "I'm alright jack" attitudes are everywhere in fieldsports, the it's getting to be more a question of when, not if.

As an aside. I don't know any vegans who bitch about shooting. The ones I know are fine with it.

No it's not at all. The general licence dictates that anything other than game shooting is justifiable. Rifle shooting of live stuff is also justifiable. Land owners need their crops and livestock protected. Deer also need controlling to reduce deer RTCs. Can you imagine the deaths on the road after a few years of no deer control. The human life cannot have a price put on it and land owners have a duty to be good neighbours by controlling stuff that might be a nuisance to the owner next door.

 

[CarlW]

They still had much to learn.

And will no doubt decline to do so.

 

[CarlW]

No it's not at all. The general licence dictates that anything other than game shooting is justifiable. Rifle shooting of live stuff is also justifiable. Land owners need their crops and livestock protected. Deer also need controlling to reduce deer RTCs. Can you imagine the deaths on the road after a few years of no deer control.

Surely the lynx and the wolves will eat all the deer...?

 

[ss03947]

Sounds like a farmer with a grudge to me. Certainly a long way away from evidence or proof of any wrong doing!

Nope, no grudge, if there is one it's on the keepers side.

The encroaching on his land was over the same issue, BOP.

Hence it's common knowledge it goes on.

 

[baguio]

Nope, no grudge, if there is one it's on the keepers side.

The encroaching on his land was over the same issue, BOP.

Hence it's common knowledge it goes on.

It's not common knowledge at all. It's here say. Nothing more, nothing less! It's certainly a long way short of proof or facts. The farmer may not even exist? I'm not saying that you're lying but this is the internet and just like Packman, Avery and the Guardian, we can post whatever we like without any need for it to be even slightly true!

 

[ss03947]

Sorry but it is common knowledge, the encroaching on the land was over BOP but not enough evidence to convict.

Your right though, it's the internet, and opinions are like arseholes.....everyone's got one.

 

[countrryboy]

Sorry, are you just making stuff up and trying to put words in my mouth ?
I stated the place is barren and it is. I'm simply saying what I've observed.
What I will say is that it has changed (slightly) for the better over , say , the last 10 yrs. Local to me at least.
And there should be a healthy bird population up on that area as well.

Sad to say I live near a grouse moor in Southern Scotland, and it's barren of wildlife. Has been for decades. Barely a bloody songbird, never mind anything else.

Wot have I made up?
U said there no song birds, wot are u alleging happened to them?
U seem to be an authority on wot keepers do.
I'm just.putting 2 and w together the same as u seem to be.
Or is it just u that an allege things with little or no evidence.

I'd say the fact moors are not exactly prme song bird habitat will be afar bigger reason for lack of song birds.

I have no idea how well managed ur moor is but for u to say it's devoid of life and barren flies in the face of every scientific study ever carried out on grouse moors and bird populations and biodiversity.
There is absolutely no doubt grouse moors have higher bird populations and biodiversity even p ackham and r spb would admit that..

Usually u often really see the benefits slightly further down the hill on the more in- bye ground where it is less harsh/exposed.
Usually the fields are alive with fledging waders black game and often wild pheasant broods.
Also often a last stronghold for wild grey partridge too
Many birds do struggle on the tops in the more heather based ecosystems.

 

[Waz77]

Surely the lynx and the wolves will eat all the deer...?

Only after they've mopped up all the ground nesting birds

 

[Rake Aboot]

Wot have I made up?
U said there no song birds, wot are u alleging happened to them?
U seem to be an authority on wot keepers do.
I'm just.putting 2 and w together the same as u seem to be.
Or is it just u that an allege things with little or no evidence.

I'd say the fact moors are not exactly prme song bird habitat will be afar bigger reason for lack of song birds.

I have no idea how well managed ur moor is but for u to say it's devoid of life and barren flies in the face of every scientific study ever carried out on grouse moors and bird populations and biodiversity.
There is absolutely no doubt grouse moors have higher bird populations and biodiversity even p ackham and r spb would admit that..

Usually u often really see the benefits slightly further down the hill on the more in- bye ground where it is less harsh/exposed.
Usually the fields are alive with fledging waders black game and often wild pheasant broods.
Also often a last stronghold for wild grey partridge too
Many birds do struggle on the tops in the more heather based ecosystems.

I thnk its U wot is alleging stuff m8

 

[Rake Aboot]

No it's not at all. The general licence dictates that anything other than game shooting is justifiable. Rifle shooting of live stuff is also justifiable. Land owners need their crops and livestock protected. Deer also need controlling to reduce deer RTCs. Can you imagine the deaths on the road after a few years of no deer control. The human life cannot have a price put on it and land owners have a duty to be good neighbours by controlling stuff that might be a nuisance to the owner next door.

Two words

Professional hunter.

 

[baguio]

Two words Professional hunter.

Are you serious?
Have you any idea as to how many millions of man hours are spent on 'pest control' by recreational hunters for free? Who is going to pay for professional hunters to do the 'same' job?
Are you suggesting that land owners will be forced to allow armed strangers on to their land who are clearly also unfamiliar with the land and hazards? Presumably they will also have to pay for that person's services too?
Then we get on to timescales. Farmer calls the pro hunter who turns up 3 weeks later once the crop has been harvested or the chickens have all been eaten by foxes for example. Hunter no longer required and damage already done. Hunter still needs to be paid though!
What if there's an accident or incident which there will be.
I could go on and on but I don't think that you have thought this through at all Rake Aboot!

 

[Rake Aboot]

Ok you're right I'm wrong well done.

It seems no one really believes how big a threat there will be to recreational shooting but hey ho.
Crack on.

 

[baguio]

Ok you're right I'm wrong well done.

Finally something that we both agree on!

 

[old keeper]

I haven't trawled through all the posts on this subject but one thing interests me. Certain raptors are found and reported and there's no doubt any keeper worth his salt in this day and age wouldn't risk shooting a raptor as you never know who's about. However, in the very many years that I've been out and about in the countryside, I've only ever found one dead raptor and that was a buzzard that had flown into overhead power lines. I wonder why there seem to be certain specific species that appear to turn up quite often?

 

[Blue400]

This has to be a stitch up, just an easy way to get bad publicity for the shooting community! And who the hell would be looking for a tracker in a stream? If it was a dodgy keeper, which I don't believe for one minute, I'm sure the tracker wouldn't be let in a functional condition even by a halfwit . What a crock of sh.te.

 

[baguio]

This has to be a stitch up, just an easy way to get bad publicity for the shooting community! And who the hell would be looking for a tracker in a stream? If it was a dodgy keeper, which I don't believe for one minute, I'm sure the tracker wouldn't be let in a functional condition even by a halfwit . What a crock of sh.t

The problem is that gullible people believe it. Crikey, when even people on here believe it you can easily see why many of the general population get sucked in so easily.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Finally something that we both agree on!

Head in sand and a superiority complex. Good stuff.

Just to be clear you're wrong and I'm right but there is no point trying to discuss anything with someone who simply refuses to see anyone elses point of view.


Do me a favour and put me on ignore would you ? There's a good chap.

 

[Gzl]

The problem is that gullible people believe it. Crikey, when even people on here believe it you can easily see why many of the general population get sucked in so easily.

Arrogance and ignorance need I say anymore. It’s high time gun licensing took into account IQ.....

 

[baguio]

Head in sand and a superiority complex. Good stuff.

Just to be clear you're wrong and I'm right but there is no point trying to discuss anything with someone who simply refuses to see anyone elses point of view.


Do me a favour and put me on ignore would you ? There's a good chap.

Who are you, my dad? I certainly have no intention of doing what a Guardian reader and Packman supporter tells me to do.
As for you being right, how about you come back next year and explain about why shooting has been banned, perhaps the year after then or even the year after that or even simply in your lifetime? PM me when it happens if you like? If it's OK with you I shan't hold my breath whilst I wait for your PM!