32-20 into .310 Cadet

[Stalker62]

I picked up this wee gem of advice from a chap at Bisley.
.310 brass is eye-wateringly expensive.

"Just buy 32-20 and trim it down to .310 Cadet."

So I bought 200 pieces of 32-20 which arrived yesterday.

I have been sat in my shed all morning.
I have managed to trim 30 pieces down to size.

I also managed to jam one dummy round in the rifle (too long).

Only another 170 to go.

Do you know when you start a project and then after about three hours of dicking about you lose the will to live...

 

[Muir]

I went down that road 20-30 years ago. IF I remember correctly, I abandoned the idea of using 32-20 brass and ordered 310 brass from Bertram Brass in AU. Think I still have a box. I ended up using some heavily sized 125 grain 8mm cast bullets. I shot the rifle for a month and rebarreled it to 25-20.~Muir

 

[Sinistral]

This has come up before, so pardon the repetition.
Check the rim thickness, as .32-20 cases have thicker rims than .310 Cadet.

 

[enfieldspares]

Bloody Fred Datig and his useless "Cartridge Conversions" books. It seems every other damn thing "can be made from .32-20". The OP has my sympathy. He'd be better off buying the correct cases from the get go. When he finally loads chambers and then fires them he'll see why for a second time. And the major reason that .310 Cadet is expensive is that Henry Krank gouge you on the price.

Perhaps PM John Gryphon here to enquire the price where it's made. Or here:

http://westernfirearms.com.au/reloading-supplies-brass-310-cadet-new-brass-100-by-bertram-p-2638.html?osCsid=4c8lnc960in46f9vvgrqbs4sf6

By any exchange rate that's £50 in UK Pounds for 100. Krank's price is £1.88 per case. OK there's shipping costs but charging £1.88 per case for an item that has a RETAIL price in Australia of the equivalent of 50p per case is taking the proverbial urine. Even for loaded rounds...when they had them...the Kynamco price was 81p +VAT and (the lady at Kynamco was unsure) that may even have been for loaded cartridges.

 

[sh1kar]

I picked up this wee gem of advice from a chap at Bisley.
.310 brass is eye-wateringly expensive.

"Just buy 32-20 and trim it down to .310 Cadet."

So I bought 200 pieces of 32-20 which arrived yesterday.

I have been sat in my shed all morning.
I have managed to trim 30 pieces down to size.

I also managed to jam one dummy round in the rifle (too long).

Only another 170 to go.

Do you know when you start a project and then after about three hours of dicking about you lose the will to live...

Looking at the posts stop now. Flog the 32-20 you haven't butchered on SD to contribute to .310 brass and dump the rest. You now have a free afternoon

S

 

[Stalker62]

I shot the rifle for a month and rebarreled it to 25-20.~Muir

I absolutely get that Muir but I bought the rife for its history.

Built in Birmingham UK for the Australians. It went out to New South Wales (stamped on the stock). It even has a Kangaroo stamp on top of the breech.
It then found its way to the USA and was picked up by a RFD from the UK.
He brought it back (along with a few other bits and bobs) and I fell in love with it.

When I bought it I told my wife it was to teach my Granddaughter to shoot - she was two at the time.

Telling my wife that I thought her Granddaughter was "big for her age" was apparently not the way to go...

 

[Stalker62]

Check the rim thickness, as .32-20 cases have thicker rims than .310 Cadet.

Yes, I was given the heads up about that. I have chambered the (32-20) brass and the rifle seems to eject it without issue.

 

[sh1kar]

Wiki

Those still using the .310 Cadet have to either buy cases to reload, by Bertram Bullet Co. in Victoria, Australia, or several small independent ammunition makers in Australia and the United Kingdom. However these new .310 Cadet cases are 3-4 times as expensive as new .32-20 Winchester cases, hence shooters modify .32-20 cases, as a cheaper alternative. Modifications involve length resizing, and in most cases reducing the rim thickness. Due to the .310 using a heeled projectile, the neck thickness of the .32-20 does not have to be reamed down, after first being case length resized to 1.075" (27.3 mm). Most .310 cadet chambered rifles need to have the rim of the .32-20 case reduced from 0.065" to 0.045" (1.7 mm to 1.14 mm), to allow proper head spacing and operation of rifle. However, in the unusual instance of a lever action .32-20 fitted with a .310 barrel, the rifle will cycle better without the case rim thickness being reduced. As home reloading is the main option for the .310, many shooters play with different case length reduction of the .32-20, anywhere from 0.875'' to 1.185'' (22.23 mm to 30.10 mm).


If you do do all 200 (and they actually work) How long will that have taken you? Divide no of hours into cost difference?

btw kynamco stock .310 and they might sell you brass?

S

 

[Stalker62]

Bloody Fred Datig and his useless "Cartridge Conversions" books. It seems every other damn thing "can be made from .32-20". The OP has my sympathy. He'd be better off buying the correct cases from the get go. When he finally loads chambers and then fires them he'll see why for a second time. And the major reason that .310 Cadet is expensive is that Henry Krank gouge you on the price.

Perhaps PM John Gryphon here to enquire the price where it's made. Or here:

http://westernfirearms.com.au/reloading-supplies-brass-310-cadet-new-brass-100-by-bertram-p-2638.html?osCsid=4c8lnc960in46f9vvgrqbs4sf6

By any exchange rate that's £50 in UK Pounds for 100. Krank's price is £1.88 per case. OK there's shipping costs but charging £1.88 per case for an item that has a RETAIL price in Australia of the equivalent of 50p per case is taking the proverbial urine. Even for loaded rounds...when they had them...the Kynamco price was 81p +VAT and (the lady at Kynamco was unsure) that may even have been for loaded cartridges.

You could get them for £1 a throw last year with Spud but has has racked it up to £2 each.
I feel I may have just chucked good money away in a hopeless exercise to save money.

Come to think of it, is not that the definition of home-loading?

 

[Stalker62]

If you do do all 200 (and they actually work) How long will that have taken you? Divide no of hours into cost difference?

btw kynamco stock .310 and they might sell you brass?

Yeah, but where is the fun in that?






Who am I kidding. Kynamco you say...

 

[Stalker62]

.310 Cadet Originally introduced by Greener as a target round for the small Martini sporting and training rifle in 1900 this round was commonly known as the .310 Greener. SORRY OUT OF STOCK ​
BULLET WEIGHT IN GRAINS​	BARREL LENGTH IN INCHES​	PRESSURE at 15°C in tons per sq. in.​	MUZZLE​	50 YARDS​	100 YARDS​
VELOCITY Feet per Second​	ENERGY Foot/lbs​	VELOCITY Feet per Second​	ENERGY Foot/lbs​	VELOCITY Feet per Second​	ENERGY Foot/lbs​
120 g​	26​	-​	1200​	384​	1146​	350​	1100​	322​
To return close this page​

 

[sh1kar]

Yes saw complete cartridge out of stock but they might have some brass kicking around - worth a call?

S

 

[enfieldspares]

What's little known is that there was a jacketed .310 Cadet round produced in WWII for use if there had been an invasion of Australia by the Japanese. Jacketed so as to comply with the Hague Regulations/Geneva Convention. Civilian rifles taken into use for such by the Australian Commonwealth in 1941 can be found and are marked D /I\ D on the receiver. I've seen SMLE's so marked, Webley revolvers and etc..

 

[Harry mac]

I had a BSA made Martini Cadet for years. The good news is that generally speaking, BSA cut the rim recess on their chambers just a gnat's knacker deeper than Greener did, so .32-20 cases can usually be chambered without thinning the rims. Trim your cases, initially with a cut off wheel in a Dremmel tool, then do the final trim on a trimmer.
Invest in a mould for the proper bullet.
The accuracy of the .310 will amaze you. 4.5 grains of Unique works really well.
Listen ye not to the nay sayers.

 

[enfieldspares]

.310 Cadet FMJ bullet used in WWII?

What does the Cordite look like? What is the burn rate similar to? I am only familiar with the long, twisted, strings of powder that were in the cracked pre-WWII military rounds that were not safe to shoot, (which I disassembled, and had much fun with). Thanks! This is from about a dozen...

forum.cartridgecollectors.org

 

[gonzo]

Losing the will to love after a few hours.
You can get years on exhasperation out of a project like this!

 

[enfieldspares]

Losing the will to love after a few hours.
You can get years on exhasperation out of a project like this!

Ha! Been there and seen it when converting .308 Winchester cases into .44 Auto Mag cases in the 1990s. Cutting, then trimming and then inside reaming. Did about a half a dozen and then decided it wasn't a project worth carrying further.

 

[mwest]

I've been using 32/20 parent cases for many years, mainly because the cases weren't readily available when I got my .310 Cadet (BSA). Harry Mac is quite right a lot of BSA made .310's are quite happy with 32/20 brass and un-thinned rims, mine is. It is very easy to remove a few thou from the inside of the rim if you need to though. I use a file and trim die to convert mine, just cut them off with a junior hacksaw then file and chamfer the neck, it's a very quick process. Jim Goodwin's design bullet mould made by RCBS is a very good bullet, I have that one and another custom made mould. If you would like some bullets to try, let me know. They are a very accurate little rifle when you feed them what they like. Again, Harry is right that Unique is a very good powder for the calibre, however mine prefers 5 grains of Pistol No. 2.
Don't forget it's a healed bullet so you could alter your "bullet jump" by your case length if you wanted to. So maybe best not to do all your cases..? You'll be very pleased with it once you get it going.
Kind regards M

 

[Stalker62]

Well this has been emotional.

I have now trimmed 100 of the 32-20 down to .310 Cadet and they all chamber OK
I still have another 100 to go but think I may kick that into the long grass - I am running out of life.

The bullet is a heeled lead at 120g.
I am using Bulls Eye and think 3.5g will be sufficient.

Any last pearls before I commit?

 

[alberta boy]

Well this has been emotional.

I have now trimmed 100 of the 32-20 down to .310 Cadet and they all chamber OK
I still have another 100 to go but think I may kick that into the long grass - I am running out of life.

The bullet is a heeled lead at 120g.
I am using Bulls Eye and think 3.5g will be sufficient.

Any last pearls before I commit?

Nothing , other than admiration for your commitment lol . Post some pics if you can , I love martini cadets ........... not enough to spend the time on it you have , but it's fun to watch .

AB