Dsc2 assessor

[devilishdave]

Dave one thing that separates the deer species in the uk and only one thing thats size they are still all deer they all live within the same type of areas eat the same and are shot in the same target areas so where does the assessing differ .

There is two different written tests for the Level one highland and lowland but we all learn about the six species, I've had that said in dozens of cases by stalkers in the north of Scotland why are we learning about CWD or muntjac .

I have assessed on apprentice trade skills tests, knowing little on the subject the assessment process gives you the required paperwork, to know the requirements that your there the check, Simple process ask them to carry out the prerequisite task and assess on the skill and knowledge of work completed ,much the same as the level two portfolio.

I take your point on the animals being physicaly v similar apart from size. Behaviour is differant although for asessing not your problem but I just feal there is a credability issue with some one assessing somthing they have perhaps not done them selves. I would doubt that many assessors will be AWs on a stalk of a species that they have not taken them selves because 9 times out of 10 it will be in their own local area.

 

[6pointer]

Dave i have only done a few AW stalks nearly into double figuers All have been on Roe deer and all deer culled were on my ground. I would like to think that i know my own area and roe deer have been my passion for 30+ YEARS

 

[Paul at Fechan]

You don't need to be an expert in every species or stalking range to observe a stalker locate, stalk and cull a beast then inspect it and extract it from the field to larder and know if they've done it right. It's about satisfying criteria and as far as the PC's go, asking the questions needed given each ICR. While there are wider elements to witnessing at the end of the day the witness is there to validate the experience, knowledge and understanding of the candidate and not the reverse.

 

[Monkey Spanker]

I think some people don't seem to appreciate what the role of the AW is!
However, the clue is in the title! He is a 'Witness'!
He is NOT the assessor!
His role is to ensure certain performance criteria are met by the candidate which is then sent up the DSC2 chain to the assessor.
DSC 2 concentrates mainly on hygiene and safety as practically applied in the field. This should not vary a great deal between any of the 6 species of deer in the UK apart from maybe manual handling techniques. I would therefore not deem it essential for the AW to have shot all 6. Also, suggestion of shooting 80+ deer a year for at least 10 years is just nonsense. So we can't be an AW until we have shot at least 800 Deer!!?? I very much doubt that we would have too many AW's left if we applied that ruling. Also, quantity does not necessarily ensure quality!
I would however agree that a certain level of experience is required, but it is difficult to quantify as everyone is different. Not everyone will be suitable for this role either, as it also requires a certain amount of 'people skills' too!
What I can't understand, is why some of the former CW's that 'talk the talk', don't 'walk the walk' and become AW's?
It seems to be a natural progression surely?
I just so happens that I have shot all 6, and shoot a lot more than 80 deer a year, but I don't think it makes me a better AW.
Regards,
MS

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

I think some people don't seem to appreciate what the role of the AW is!
However, the clue is in the title! He is a 'Witness'!
He is NOT the assessor!
His role is to ensure certain performance criteria are met by the candidate which is then sent up the DSC2 chain to the assessor.
DSC 2 concentrates mainly on hygiene and safety as practically applied in the field. This should not vary a great deal between any of the 6 species of deer in the UK apart from maybe manual handling techniques. I would therefore not deem it essential for the AW to have shot all 6. Also, suggestion of shooting 80+ deer a year for at least 10 years is just nonsense. So we can't be an AW until we have shot at least 800 Deer!!?? I very much doubt that we would have too many AW's left if we applied that ruling. Also, quantity does not necessarily ensure quality!
I would however agree that a certain level of experience is required, but it is difficult to quantify as everyone is different. Not everyone will be suitable for this role either, as it also requires a certain amount of 'people skills' too!
What I can't understand, is why some of the former CW's that 'talk the talk', don't 'walk the walk' and become AW's?
It seems to be a natural progression surely?
I just so happens that I have shot all 6, and shoot a lot more than 80 deer a year, but I don't think it makes me a better AW.
Regards,
MS

Spot on

 

[Cris]

Spot on

So why is the assessor not present then? Strange he has to go on second hand information. Should an AW not be an assessor.

 

[devilishdave]

Dave i have only done a few AW stalks nearly into double figuers All have been on Roe deer and all deer culled were on my ground. I would like to think that i know my own area and roe deer have been my passion for 30+ YEARS

I think we are at cross purpouses because that is what I am saying you only need to know what you do. I am sure graloching a spring bok is similar to a roe or fallow but if you are not doing that species or assesing it you dont need to know about it.

Dave

 

[6pointer]

Were knowlage of you own area and the animals on it comes in is when you get a chap who passed his Lev 1 and then gose straight for his Lev 2. Thinking he is some how ready when he is clearly not. But rather than say sorry to days finnished you can then change the objective and turn it into a learning stalk. I have done this a couple of times the chaps are fine with it.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

An assessor validates the evidence of a candidate as signed off by a witness and there's only a limited number of them!

 

[Monkey Spanker]

So why is the assessor not present then? Strange he has to go on second hand information. Should an AW not be an assessor.

It does seem rather confusing, and I would be the first to admit that it would appear to be the AW that is actually 'assessing' whether the performance criteria are met!
However, I believe that the titles and levels of Assessor and Verifier originate from the NVQ system which DMQ work to.
MS

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

So why is the assessor not present then? Strange he has to go on second hand information. Should an AW not be an assessor.

There are less than 10 assessors in the whole country I believe which are based at the training centres so they need to rely on a working base of witness to oversee the candidates performance, when the portfolio has been completed it then gets sent to the assessors to verify that the individual performance criteria has been carried out in a uniform manner , He then may choose to reject it if he feels certain areas havent met the required standards or ask further questions himself to see if the candidate is up to the required standard if he is satisfied then it is submitted to DMQ with his recomendation.
There is no way the small number of assessors could possibly take out a candidate and the system relies on observation by approved witnesses to administer.
Hope that this answers you question.
Regards
Stu

 

[Brithunter]

I have never bothered with the Deer certificate or the one the preceeded it. With my stalking of buying let outings and days at the time it didn't seem a very good use of my limited funds. When I gained permission to stalk a small piece of ground after several years of stalking again doing the course again wa snot high on my list to do and spend money on. By that time I was stalking with a chap who had in past ran deer estates in England and Scotland for a Lord and been a keeper for nearly all his working life so I was learning from him.

Funnily enough he didn't see the need to spend money and take the DSC himself even though they tries to brow beat him into it several times at gamefairs. Now I do believe that he has shot all Six species in the UK plus other species abroad. So according to some of the thinking here he is not trained despite doing the actual work for some 40+ years.

I suppose at some point I will be forced into spending the money on the DSC that is if I wish to continue stalking even on let days and outings. The chances of my taking all six species of Deer normally hunted in the UK is fairly slim the costs associated with Reds normally puts them firmly beyond my reach. So far I have stalked and Shot Roe Does and Bucks, Fallow Does and bUcks but depsite a button buck who had lost his mother to a RTA have not grassed a Buck and Muntjac does and Buck. The onyl CWD alive I have seen is the one that very nearly was embedded in the front of the truck at about 02:00 one morning on a call out. I have never seen Sika as yet. Reds we watched on the side of Clen Coe.

 

[callumity]

There seem to have been a few 'mine is bigger than yours' posts. The DSC system is, however, a tad inflexible when it comes to experience and shutting down grandfather rights. I was unsurprised to be told by DMQ that my 1985 Jagdschein (at least a DSC 1.5 by any reckoning) and anything I have ever shot meant diddly squat. Evidence pretty much has to post date DSC1 and my history 1985-to date counts for nowt. Quantity and quality are emphatically not the same - and the smart bloke nevers stops learning. To demand 30+ carcases a year makes a hobby unaffordable and puts almost all stalking witnessing/certification into the hands of the professional stalker. If football is anything to go by it does not make you more sporting............ and we do not need the sport unionising.

 

[Cris]

Have to agree there should be room for recognition of other qualifications and experience. I hold an ND in Game and Wildlife Management that I spent three years working for full time. One year of them spent working full time as a stalker / wildlife ranger for a very well respected deer manager in the borders. I took advice recently from the BDS and there take was that if it were an employer my qualifications would be far superior to DCS as you would expect. So brings this back to what it actually is and that is a competence assurance (voluntary) for new people entering stalking with little or no experience. I believe this is right but I don't agree with the high handed approach DMQ take. I may even take DSC1 one day if needed but not untill I have to.