Licence application questions - using military armouries/home addresses etc.

[GSP94]

Hello everyone,

I hope everyone is having a good Christmas break! I've got a couple of quick questions about a FAC application I am putting in.

Background and questions:

- I am in the military and live on a base in Devon, however my home address is London. Although, I don't own that house, it is a family home. Which police force should I be applying through? I called Devon Police this morning and they say through the Met ? The Met aren't taking applications at the moment so I would like to go through Devon and Cornwall.

- I intend to keep the weapon within the armoury at my base. I will not be allowed to keep the ammunition there though. Could I keep the ammunition in a friend's safe who lives a short distance away?

- To start my application do I absolutely need permission to shoot already? It seems a bit 'chicken and egg' - I need the rifle to get permission, but permission to get the rifle haha!

- Finally, how likely am I to be successful for a .308? I know that the police don't care much about military experience but I have security clearance, and qualifications to run live ranges as well as an armoury within an armed guarded base so I would like to think that would be supporting evidence?

Thanks in advance.

 

[bowji john]

Military experience is always useful however you are right that it comes secondary to meeting primary requirements when making an application

I'm surprised the Corps (or RN) will allow you to keep your firearm at the armoury but I've been a long time out so what do I know

I doubt very much that you will be permitted to store ammo at a friends house

I suspect you will be obliged to make your application in the county of your registered home address

I don't think (but not 100% sure) that living on base will qualify

As for 308 - you can do no more than give your 'good reasons' for the calibre and have permission to shoot on land already cleared for 308 - and hope they agree

 

[User00040]

Hello everyone,

I hope everyone is having a good Christmas break! I've got a couple of quick questions about a FAC application I am putting in.

Background and questions:

- I am in the military and live on a base in Devon, however my home address is London. Although, I don't own that house, it is a family home. Which police force should I be applying through? I called Devon Police this morning and they say through the Met ? The Met aren't taking applications at the moment so I would like to go through Devon and Cornwall.

- I intend to keep the weapon within the armoury at my base. I will not be allowed to keep the ammunition there though. Could I keep the ammunition in a friend's safe who lives a short distance away?

- To start my application do I absolutely need permission to shoot already? It seems a bit 'chicken and egg' - I need the rifle to get permission, but permission to get the rifle haha!

- Finally, how likely am I to be successful for a .308? I know that the police don't care much about military experience but I have security clearance, and qualifications to run live ranges as well as an armoury within an armed guarded base so I would like to think that would be supporting evidence?

Thanks in advance.

I'm not in the military/Army but several on here are, so wait for their input or possibly PM's.

I would not disclose any details on here at all, so take these questions as being hypothetical.

Are you an officer or NCO? I strongly suspect that after 'who you know' your rank will correspond with how much say you have in the matter of storing stuff on base.

Who have you asked regarding storage? Buying your own safe and demonstrating that you can securely store a firearm and ammunition is the first port of call, ideas such as installing a safe at your mate's house are bad ones.

In fact, any FAC holder should also be a Shotgun Certificate Holder in my eyes; it is a 'shall grant' condition so you can apply for a SGC just to shoot clays or game in the future (although I strongly recommend lessons first!). So long as you fulfil all the necessary criteria, the Police Force has to grant your SGC.

Are you a member of a range/Home Office approved rifle club? That is a 'good reason' to own a firearm (presuming regular attendance).

The .243 is the 'standard' ask and receive for deer stalking in the UK. It's a cartridge that is looked down upon now due to internet commando's but when you think about it, it's ideally suited to the UK.

There are plenty of 243's on the second hand market and the 'non-toxic ammo' mob will be along shortly to wave their arms and warn you of the perils of choosing it but I would ignore them and put that down for target, roe deer, red deer, fallow deer, sika deer, muntjac, Chinese Water Deer and pests (all falling under the helpful umbrella of Any Otherwise Legal Quarry).

Muzzle velocity, bullet weight and recoil are all nicely balanced and it is no slouch when shooting targets (but don't shoot 20 rounds back to back through any sporting rifle in anything other than .22LR for the heck of it).

As much as I hate to say it, sign up for the Deer Stalking Certificate 1. Some forces in Englandshire now see this as a compulsory thing before granting FAC. The DSC1 shooting test is not a test, so long as your are not blind and can follow instructions you should pass, yet I've seen people fail it. All the more reason to have a rifle to practise with!

Also bear in mind that shooting is a time commitment as much as effort and money. You see a lot of rifles on here being sold as 'unshot, like new or just zeroed then kept in safe' if it was me I would be asking the seller why the hell they applied for a rifle if they never got round to using it...

 

[Jelen]

I sympathise with your problems. I was in the military some years ago and keeping a stalking rifle in the armoury posed a problem for my stalkers. They were never sure who had fiddled with the rifle and scope while it was in the armoury. This led to a few wounded deer! Also there were issues with the Met police who weren't happy with unauthorised people
(soldiers on small arms cleaning duty, orderly officers etc) having access. The met said the armoury was not a secure place!!!!
I suggest you give your London address. When I was in BAOR Wiltshire police accepted my in laws house as a suitable address. That was years ago though.

 

[finnbear270]

I would be firstly terming it a firearm or more preferably a sporting arm / rifle.

 

[Frank Homes]

A couple of points- with dual residence you can choose which force to apply to so don't be fobbed of by D & C. 2. Military armouries are of course secure but as your firearm won't belong to the Crown, military personnel can't have access to it so some separarte storage arrangements will have to be made.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

If you haven’t seen it already this https://assets.publishing.service.g..._on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_April_2016_v20.pdf is well worth reading. In particular chapter 13, “Good Reason” as it gives examples of what is required.
I didn’t have a FAC while I was in the Army. But unless something has changed dramatically I don’t think I would want to leave any of my rifles (weapon is what you’re issued with not how we refer to sporting rifles) in the armoury. Certainly not unless I could leave it looked in a flight case.
As for using your base address are you in single accommodation or married quarters? As the latter is probably easier to use than the former.
BASC or one of the other organisations might be worth joining as you have access to stalking through BASC. There’s some military stalking syndicates/groups who might be worth speaking to. As they have relevant experience of getting and keeping FAC’s while serving.
Good luck with your application.

 

[Robj84]

Hi,
From my experience of applying:
I was told to apply to the force where my home address is. You need a cabinet /secure storage before FAC can be issued.
I believe Military experience helps with the application process however, it doesn’t negate the requirement to have somewhere to use the rifle.
I’d advise (if you haven’t already) to undertake paid stalking using an estate rifle. This will demonstrate you have interest and some experience.
The stalker who takes you out can also add weight to your application. The fire arms officer contacted the stalker who I go with during my application process.
I’m not sure about Land requirements but will PM you details about storage of private weapons in RN ship armoury.

I was granted 308 on my first application.

Good luck.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Hi,
From my experience of applying:
I was told to apply to the force where my home address is. You need a cabinet /secure storage before FAC can be issued.
I believe Military experience helps with the application process however, it doesn’t negate the requirement to have somewhere to use the rifle.
I’d advise (if you haven’t already) to undertake paid stalking using an estate rifle. This will demonstrate you have interest and some experience.
The stalker who takes you out can also add weight to your application. The fire arms officer contacted the stalker who I go with during my application process.
I’m not sure about Land requirements but will PM you details about storage of private weapons in RN ship armoury.

I was granted 308 on my first application.

Good luck.

I would add my son is in the Navy. His permanent home address is the same as mine and he’s applying (Covid permitting) for his SGC/FAC.
However I can’t help with storage as he is just getting everything that I have on his certificate. This is a variety of calibre’s with 270 Winchester as the largest.
The FEO said his military experience would help, but it was more my reference that would get him a certificate without a mentoring condition.

Calibre/cartridge is a funny one, many forces try push a 243 on you. As it’s the legal minimum for all species. However it is the “good reason” that dictates what you need. If they really won’t budge I would suggest a 6.5 Creedmoor or x55 whichever. But they are more likely to be legal with copper (lead free) ammunition required by some estates. So if you are only looking at one rifle having to use lead free ammunition is a reason for something larger than 243.

 

[Gsd99]

Hi mate, probably not the answer you are wanting but i would not bother trying with the storage of the rifle etc on camp, regardless of your rank. The issue with ammo etc that youve already picked up on will cause a headache. The armoury seems a good idea until you want to put your rifle away on a saturday evening. The police force were also keen that i went through avon and somerset as thats where my private residence is.

Imo you would be better off waiting to apply through the met, providing time to get onto a syndicate/ground.

As for the calibres i got 17hmr 222 243 and 3006 on first application.

Regards
Josh

 

[Gandy]

I’m fairly sure there is a defence deer management organisation for serving and retired members of the military.

I would think that they would be able to help you.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I’m fairly sure there is a defence deer management organisation for serving and retired members of the military.

I would think that they would be able to help you.

That’s one of the ones I was thinking of.
Shooting Times magazine did an article on them it seems like they would be a good source of information.

 

[Gsd99]

DDM at the moment is taking 2-6 YEARS to even let people through the door onto their "apprenticeship"

 

[Sonicdmb73]

DDM at the moment is taking 2-6 YEARS to even let people through the door onto their "apprenticeship"

Surely they or (one of the member) could offer advice on applications made whilst living on base.

 

[Gsd99]

Surely they or (one of the member) could offer advice on applications made whilst living on base.

Possibly but the minimum requirements of DSC1 and a FAC with a deer legal calibre just to enquire I would doubt the OP will get much help from the organisation but maybe someone would help him out (the majority of ddm hq are probably very busy with their day jobs aswell).

@GSP94 Have you done any stalking? Or is it just something you want to get into? I think your best chances of success are some paid stalking and applying with the met

 

[Apthorpe]

Hello everyone,

I hope everyone is having a good Christmas break! I've got a couple of quick questions about a FAC application I am putting in.

Background and questions:

- I am in the military and live on a base in Devon, however my home address is London. Although, I don't own that house, it is a family home. Which police force should I be applying through? I called Devon Police this morning and they say through the Met ? The Met aren't taking applications at the moment so I would like to go through Devon and Cornwall.

- I intend to keep the weapon within the armoury at my base. I will not be allowed to keep the ammunition there though. Could I keep the ammunition in a friend's safe who lives a short distance away?

- To start my application do I absolutely need permission to shoot already? It seems a bit 'chicken and egg' - I need the rifle to get permission, but permission to get the rifle haha!

- Finally, how likely am I to be successful for a .308? I know that the police don't care much about military experience but I have security clearance, and qualifications to run live ranges as well as an armoury within an armed guarded base so I would like to think that would be supporting evidence?

Thanks in advance.

1. Met Police. Because I don't think you'll be keeping it in Devon as your permanent address, and because having it in London will be a more straightforward application than explaining unorthodox arrangements on a military base which the licensing officer may be unable to inspect, and which may involve another person being able to get access to the rifle.

2. I would imagine unlikely you will be keeping it on base for any of a variety of reasons dreamt up by officialdom. The ammunition can only be kept at friend, if the friend is able to legitimately hold that quantity and calibre themselves. (And call it a rifle, gun or firearm NOT a weapon to the Police. They're already too busy pretending all civilian guns are a shooting or act of terrorism wating to happen).

3. You need to have "good reason", so if the only good reason is stalking or shooting foxes etc. then you need to be able to demonstrate you have permission or land to do it on. Alternatively you can use evidence of having booked stalking somewhere commercially sufficiently often to qualify.....perhaps once is enough, perhaps several.

4. If you're a qualified range officer, then it's unlikely the police would be difficult about a .308, assuming its for suitable quarry. D&C police have previously authorised the use of .308 for badgers on some land of mine, so I find it hard to imagine deer would be a problem.

 

[GSP94]

All, thanks very much for your rapid and really informative response. Loads of info to take in.

I think based on what has been said I will:

- Continue with my DSC1 and look to join DDM.
- Get some friends/military syndicates to take me out stalking.
- Pay for some stalks to build experience.
- Apply for my licence through the met, put a safe at that residence, and then if I have shooting lined up I can make an arrangement to keep it in the armoury in a locked peli case.

Genuinely, thanks very much that was mega useful and so much easier than trawling through tons of generic articles. Look forward to getting started properly on this path. I'll keep you all posted.

 

[User00040]

(And call it a rifle, gun or firearm NOT a weapon to the Police. They're already too busy pretending all civilian guns are a shooting or act of terrorism wating to happen).

Sorry, but the Highlands and Islands Firearms Licensing team, the most busy, efficient, knowledgeable and friendly department in the UK, insist on referring to all items as 'weapons', an umbrella term whether it be shotgun, air-rifle, pistol, centre-fire rifle or whatever.

Call a spade a spade.

 

[Gsd99]

Best of luck @GSP94

 

[Dickie]

Years ago I wanted to store a weapon in the base armoury for 4 night between home and stalking, it couldn’t be in a travel case and had to go on the rack with all the others, I was required to provide a letter from a gunsmith as to it being inspected and it’s condition, then proof of insurance for it.
I found a suitable storage instead.