Licence application questions - using military armouries/home addresses etc.

[topscots1]

Apply with the met. And have a cabinet at home

Shouldn’t be any issues storing the rifle on camp.
The QM can authorise with the Commanding officers authority fairly easily.

I was in a similar position. Never had an issue storing rifles on camps.

The armoury require a copy of your certificate and your firearms will go on the Unicom or James printouts.

The rifle will also be checked on armoury checks. I never had any issues with people playing with my rifles. The peli case isn’t really an option as serial numbers should be checked. If you are worried about your zero being wasted get a set of decent QD mounts.

As for military experience it’s unlikely that they will take it in to account other than for target shooting. It may help a club wave the probationary period.

 

[Apthorpe]

Sorry, but the Highlands and Islands Firearms Licensing team, the most busy, efficient, knowledgeable and friendly department in the UK, insist on referring to all items as 'weapons', an umbrella term whether it be shotgun, air-rifle, pistol, centre-fire rifle or whatever.

Call a spade a spade.

I'm not surprised they do. They should call a spade a spade, but they'd probably even call a spade a weapon too. They're not weapons, until or unless they are used to commit a crime. Your cutlery drawer is not full of weapons and nor is your gun cabinet. Your certificate is not a weapon certificate, it's a firearm certificate, issued under the firearms act, not the weapons act.
Call it a weapon and you're describing it as an implement to attack people with.

 

[User00040]

I'm not surprised they do. They should call a spade a spade, but they'd probably even call a spade a weapon too. They're not weapons, until or unless they are used to commit a crime. Your cutlery drawer is not full of weapons and nor is your gun cabinet. Your certificate is not a weapon certificate, it's a firearm certificate, issued under the firearms act, not the weapons act.
Call it a weapon and you're describing it as an implement to attack people with.

Ahem... Air Weapons - Police Scotland

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Ahem... Air Weapons - Police Scotland

Just because they call it that doesn’t make it correct.

 

[stubear]

Personally I think this insistence of the powers that be calling firearms "weapons" is to associate a level of threat/danger with them. A "firearm" is a tool but a "weapon" is oooh scary, that'll kill you that will. So they use the word as much as they possibly can so that the uninformed associate firearms with danger, when in reality they are no more dangerous than any other tool.

The danger only comes when someone unauthorised or unqualified (by dint of lack of experience and knowledge of safe firearms handling) picks the thing up and starts acting like Rambo with it.

As Apthorpe says - anything can be a weapon if it is so used. A chainsaw is a tool until you use it to dismember someone with, and then it becomes a weapon in that context.

 

[Apthorpe]

Ahem... Air Weapons - Police Scotland

Ahem......Firearms Act 1968

 

[spannulman]

I would think twice before leaving any personal firearm in an army armoury unless it was locked in a case. It has been a long time for me but I remember messing about with the Aladdin’s cave i had access to when working in there As a young and foolish youth.
Playing cowboy gunslinger with the various personal pistols and probably dropping them And knackering sights. And anything with nice wood stands to be bashed about carelessly. Unless things have changed considerably military armouries are not the safe place you might think, when the people guarding them are prone to horseplay or just curiosity and accidental damage.

ps apologies if you owned a SW airweight Revolver stored in a military armoury in the late 80s which had an inexplicably bent foresight. Oops. I’ll add that to my list of shameful or regrettable acts like those on the thread on here re catapult or air rifle acts of callousness as a boy.

 

[ndt man]

I would think twice before leaving any personal firearm in an army armoury unless it was locked in a case. It has been a long time for me but I remember messing about with the Aladdin’s cave i had access to when working in there As a young and foolish youth.
Playing cowboy gunslinger with the various personal pistols and probably dropping them And knackering sights. And anything with nice wood stands to be bashed about carelessly. Unless things have changed considerably military armouries are not the safe place you might think, when the people guarding them are prone to horseplay or just curiosity and accidental damage.

ps apologies if you owned a SW airweight Revolver stored in a military armoury in the late 80s which had an inexplicably bent foresight. Oops. I’ll add that to my list of shameful or regrettable acts like those on the thread on here re catapult or air rifle acts of callousness as a boy.

Put all my rifles in the camp armoury whilst I was moving house so it's not a problem there but I wasn't allowed the storage of ammunition . Beware of the weekly inspections some idiot obviously dropped one of mine and dinked the scope. ( short term Storage not a problem once you have one ) not much help in your case .

 

[MAH]

- I am in the military and live on a base in Devon, however my home address is London

I've no military experience, but I understand that you move around a lot, from base to base, sometimes at short notice. So having a stable home address for your application and storage might be easier in the long run.
M.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

The other thing is that if you follow the conditions on your certificate you must take reasonable precautions to prevent unauthorised access to your firearms. When not stored at your home address.
That in itself gives you some leeway if you use your London address. That you would not have if you used for arguments sake HMS Collinwood or Drake etc. You would have to meet stricter storage requirements ie fit a cabinet in your room (because that’s going to happen).
If you haven’t already I really do suggest looking at the Home Office Guidelines I put the link to.
Having the guidance to hand ie so you can say that it says x in paragraph 3 section 2 or whatever. Can help when you are talking to them.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Personally I think this insistence of the powers that be calling firearms "weapons" is to associate a level of threat/danger with them. A "firearm" is a tool but a "weapon" is oooh scary, that'll kill you that will. So they use the word as much as they possibly can so that the uninformed associate firearms with danger, when in reality they are no more dangerous than any other tool.

The danger only comes when someone unauthorised or unqualified (by dint of lack of experience and knowledge of safe firearms handling) picks the thing up and starts acting like Rambo with it.

As Apthorpe says - anything can be a weapon if it is so used. A chainsaw is a tool until you use it to dismember someone with, and then it becomes a weapon in that context.

A very good point seldom used in argument against those who would take away civilian ownership of firearms.
The most dangerous example is the one most people have easy access to.
A car, van or wagon is involved in more deaths per year than firearms legally held or otherwise.
An acquaintance says “a rifle well it’s just a hammer to hit things farther away” ie a tool.

 

[Mr B]

I stored firearms and shotguns in various RAF armouries for many years. There was an application form which the Stn Cdr signed to approve it. Anything I wasn’t fussed about (shotguns etc) went in gunslips, each tagged with an individual number. Valuable stuff went in Peli Cases, visually inspected by armourer upon receipt, then locked with a combination lock.
Ammunition had to be stored elsewhere as not allowed in armoury. I was able to use ammunition from my mate which solved that issue.
coming home late from a shoot I would out my rifle in the guardroom sub-armoury overnight, then move it a day or so later.

 

[Pedro]

Probably the easiest way to obtain good reason to get a certificate for you is to join a civilian shooting club/range. You will have to be a probationary member for a few months and go a certain number of times. They will likely have club rifles for you to use during that period. Once you are a full member, you've got the good reason and can apply for a certificate, obviously requesting rifles you can eventually use stalking. You will probably have made some good contacts too. Then you can pursue your goal to stalk at your leisure. Have a couple of paid stalks and then you can look at adding stalking to your certificate conditions with the rifle(s) you will already have (which hitherto will be conditioned for use on ranges).

I don't know how permanent your posting might be in the Forces, or indeed your time in the service but thinking long term continuity, probably the best bet is to use your home address and the Met. Any Covid nonsense about not accepting new applicants I suspect from now will (hopefully) be short lived. There will not be any restrictions on where you actually keep your firearms when you are using them. Stalkers who go up to Scotland from the West Country obviously have to keep them away from their home address for a week or maybe more at a time. So suitable arrangements at your base could still be used if you are at work but intend using them anytime. Their security though will remain your concern.

 

[smullery]

Hello everyone,

I hope everyone is having a good Christmas break! I've got a couple of quick questions about a FAC application I am putting in.

Background and questions:

- I am in the military and live on a base in Devon, however my home address is London. Although, I don't own that house, it is a family home. Which police force should I be applying through? I called Devon Police this morning and they say through the Met ? The Met aren't taking applications at the moment so I would like to go through Devon and Cornwall.

- I intend to keep the weapon within the armoury at my base. I will not be allowed to keep the ammunition there though. Could I keep the ammunition in a friend's safe who lives a short distance away?

- To start my application do I absolutely need permission to shoot already? It seems a bit 'chicken and egg' - I need the rifle to get permission, but permission to get the rifle haha!

- Finally, how likely am I to be successful for a .308? I know that the police don't care much about military experience but I have security clearance, and qualifications to run live ranges as well as an armoury within an armed guarded base so I would like to think that would be supporting evidence?

Thanks in advance.

I am in Lincolnshire. My son is in London (the Met).

He applied to the Met for his first FAC and was sharing my guns (in Lincolnshire).

No problem at all. He can take them from my cabinet, with my permission, and do the due diligence of (safe storage) when he wants to use them.

Stan

P.S. The Met were not bothered about the firearms being held off territory.

 

[Pete1774]

Military experience is always useful however you are right that it comes secondary to meeting primary requirements when making an application

I'm surprised the Corps (or RN) will allow you to keep your firearm at the armoury but I've been a long time out so what do I know

I doubt very much that you will be permitted to store ammo at a friends house

I suspect you will be obliged to make your application in the county of your registered home address

I don't think (but not 100% sure) that living on base will qualify

As for 308 - you can do no more than give your 'good reasons' for the calibre and have permission to shoot on land already cleared for 308 - and hope they agree

 

[Pete1774]

Guns in the armoury. I got my first FAC in the 1970s while serving in the RAF. At the time I was obliged to keep my guns, (full bore rifles and pistols) and ammo in the station armoury while I was in the RAF. I continued to keep them there for almost a year after my service ended until I eventually acquired a gun safe at my home address in a nearby village. It was only when I wanted to keep them at home that I had any contact with the local firearms officer. Oh how times have changed.

 

[bfltd0]

I would endorse your plan to apply to the Met and instal security there.

Home for me has been London for decades with a Met FAC/SGC. I kept a .22 auto rifle and a 12b o/u in an armoury at one posting, as I had permission to shoot vermin over the estate. The Met checked with the local force (Dorset) that the armoury was secure and that was that. I never had a problem getting the guns in or out of the armoury. I suspect it helped that I was friendly with the Garrison Staff Officer and I am an OF4.

On another posting in Cheltenham, I'd bought a flat in Gloucester and installed a cabinet there. The local FEO came round, had a nice chat and confirmed to the Met all was in order. The Met have not been bothered at all that I have spent several years living away from home elsewhere in the UK and haven't been fussed when op tours came round. They can get upset if you have an overseas posting for say 2-3 years and if you don't own your own UK property, they will make you give up your cert, store your guns with a dealer or give them away to friends and reapply for a licence when you are are back in the UK.

DDM? I looked into that a few years back and I hope it has changed but I found it was a pretty tight clique.

Good luck with your plans.

 

[kimh]

Please, Ladies and Gentlemen, refrain and correct anyone that uses the term 'Weapon' in relationship with countryside activities
The OP is forgiven as he is trained in the use of weapons (an implement that is purely manufactured to kill a human) I'm sure he won't do it again

 

[Woodsmoke]

Just because they call it that doesn’t make it correct.

Exactly. I even had to take my FLO to task for referring to bullets as 'heads'

 

[pux]

You should be fine keeping it in the armoury! You will have to apply for permission from the CO. I kept mine in the armoury for a while. Every time my firearms got put Sealed them with tag, which the duty armour witnessed. I no longer keep them there due to owing a house in the local area. On my last visit in the armoury for work related weapons I noted that private firearms now have their own individual lockers and that person who has that firearm keeps the key.

in the period I kept my firearms in the armoury I was posted three times with three different FEO departments, they never had a problem with them being stored there, in fact on a renewal visit they were more interested in looking at the .50 & GMG. Good luck.