anyone have first hand experience of having a barrel bore scoped by a gunsmith

[bewsher500]

considering have my 270 looked at. just not doing as its told.

my guy says a gunsmith may start sucking his teeth and telling me it is shot out, need recrowning etc etc

I had a guy who didnt sell guns, just worked on them who I trusted implicity but now have to take that leap of faith with someone new (and recommended obviously).

just dont want to throw good money after bad.
what should I expect to be charged for a diagnostic bore check?

 

[c18rch]

If your based near Huddersfield give Luke Wadsworth a call

07881914607 (After 5pm)

He has a borescope and will give you an honest answer of whether it is shot out or not. Very reasonable re-barreling prices if required too.

 

[Muir]

considering have my 270 looked at. just not doing as its told.

my guy says a gunsmith may start sucking his teeth and telling me it is shot out, need recrowning etc etc

I had a guy who didnt sell guns, just worked on them who I trusted implicity but now have to take that leap of faith with someone new (and recommended obviously).

just dont want to throw good money after bad.
what should I expect to be charged for a diagnostic bore check?

I have bore scoped many rifles. I have read many posts about such a venture on your side of the pond and invariably, the result is exactly as you described. Rebarreling is almost a must! (Like asking the guy who sells hi-dollar cleaning rods what he thinks of Bore Snakes) Unless your rifle had seen a great deal of use, don't bother. It will just keep you up nights. I have 100 year old rifles that shoot fine after years of use and often neglect. Load adjustment will often off set throat wear.

What is your rifle not doing?~Muir

 

[Bryan_C]

I have had my rifles checked. It is bit like going to the Dentist/Hygienist! Told me that my barrels were good considering their usage but they were showing a bit of wear: however, I was not brushing my teeth properly. Sorry, back to the rifles - I was not get my barrels clean and they were showing signs of copper deposits. Interestingly, the rifles were showing signs in similar places, which indicated technique rather than tools/solvents etc. Remedial cleaning training completed under tutorage of gunsmith!!!! Not sure that there was any improvement on shooting results, but at least I now know that any problem it is unlikely to result from ineffective cleaning. By the way, gunsmith is a top bloke - didn't charge me a penny for any of this. But he does know that he will be getting all my custom in the future.

 

[bewsher500]

What is your rifle not doing?~Muir

not doing as its told!!

Well I have a couple of names of gunsmiths but the cost of travelling there, getting it done, the invariable advice to "junk it", "rebarrel it" and "buy this nice little mauser we just got in on a part exchange"! bis not worth it. I know it is not valuable and it would be easier to pick up another nice 2nd hand example, but it has history.

The gun...
BSA majestic, .270 with muzzle brake ( I only say this to demonstrate that damage to the crown is unlikely) , S&B scope
approx 50yrs old
shot regularly (deer and foxes) for 40-45 of those years. no homeloads, predominantly fed norma 130gn SP
Little in the way of cleaning/servicing other than a quick pull through with a patch and a wipe down.
appears to have done this service without problem
For the last 5-10 it has done very little.



1st time a the range I tried two factory loads (Norma 150gn and RWS 150gn in that order), no barrel cleaning done prior.
rifle had been zeroed 1" at 100yds (not by me),
all prone with bipod at 130yds, relatively calm, cool day with slight breeze left to right (5mph if that)
Norma

RWS

2nd outing, having had a clean (admittedly without use of anti copper/carbon fouling products)
same range, slightly cooler, slightly stiffer breeze gusting left to right (10+mph)
Norma

RWS

and one quick burst with my first effort at home loads. Hornady SP 130gn, 47.7 V165, CCI 200 primers in Norma brass (.0040" off lands)

I have ordered a few cleaning supplies (KG copper and carbon remover) I didnt have, intend to strip and check stock/action mounting and generally give a bit more off a detailed once over before I commit hard earned cash to the problem

Now I dont claim to be a sniper but have been shooting rifles for 30 years and full bore for 20+
Mostly stalking inside 100yds, happily shot 1" groups at 100yds, have done a few range days had my share of VBulls at 600yds and 200yds...point being I know I can do much better than this on a bad day!!

will see what an anti foul a service does and then its off to the smelter!

 

[Brithunter]

Having read the usage I suspect, getting ready for the naysayers... tin helmet donned, that you bore may need a deep clean.

reason i suggest this is that I acquired a late 1950's majestic .270 late last year and thought it would need a re-barrel. After two and half days scrubbing and using Forest bore foam is visually looked like I had doubled the rifling depth. Tried some old Norma 150 grain and it shot a very respectful group.

Now Steve Kershaw has a bore scope and i found him very honest and good in his appraisal of my 25-06. I now know the first 10" of the bore is heat crazed. So hopefully can load to get the best out of it still..

Oh the Besa brake does get fouled up I have a .243 that came with the range adaptor fitted to shut it off and I doubt it had ever been removed to clean under it.. The crap in there had to be seen to be believed.................. so don't scrap it yet.

Edit:-

This is the BESA:-

Found on BSA Majestic's Regent's and Hunter's.

Sorry about the fuzz was not my camera .

 

[bewsher500]

Steve is on my list, but a bit distant. (close to 300 miles!)
The brake is integral on this barrel, or if it is not I cant see the join), but it has a much larger bore than the crown itself so acts as a shroud, its pretty clean inside.
not ready to give up and am quietly confident that I can turn it round.
got your PM, thanks

 

[finnbear270]

On a trip to Arran a few years back, we as usual, visited Continental shooting @ Dalry, my Finnbear was as you comment, not doing......... so I had Tom look at the bore with his scope, he pronounced the bore fouled to a normal extent for the use I had been giving it, he then proceeded to clean the bore with Patchout, after a thorough brush out followed by a dry patch, he re examined it, pronounced it in fine condition, this then led to the rifle being left with him for the week, on picking it up on the return journey, the crown had been re cut (perfectly) & the wooden pressure point in the stock had been removed at my request, result ! round on round @ 100 yds.

 

[Brithunter]

See photos added in above post.

 

[sikadog]

BEWSHER500
My BSA 270 first/first pattern monarch in 270 hates 130 grain Norma amunition and shoots patterns exactly the same as yours is doing so I lengthened them by 5mm and now it shoots 1 inch groups this probably wont help but all three of my BSA rifles like long ammunition.

 

[bewsher500]

well I actually reseated some 150gn norma at 40 thou of the lands and it improved slightly but not markedly.

it has been fed 130gn all its life so I am hoping that there is a mechanical issue or fouling that is causing the poor groups

 

[finnbear270]

Feed it some partitions (130's)

 

[bewsher500]

nosler?

 

[Muir]

Bewsher: I don't get to shoot V-165 so I took a look at some of the data for a 130 grain in a .270 Winchester. Lee's book lists the startingload as 53.8 grains with a max of 59.3 grains. I noted you are shooting 47+ grains. That's not dangerously below starting loads but are you certain that you aren't getting ignition issues? I know that Factory ammo is also not behaving but it's just something I noticed when re-reading the post.

I am always suspicious when a rifle's accuracy suddenly goes to hell. It's usually a little more gradual than that. ~Muir

 

[bewsher500]

I took the 47.3 from the Lee Loader manual (1 scoop!) didnt seem to bad for a low load. have some scales on the way...

Trouble is I only started using this rifle in anger recently, before that it was in the hands of my uncle using it less and less so I cant vouch for how gradual its demise has been.

 

[Muir]

Gottcha.~Muir

 

[Brithunter]

Hmmm if you can get some reasonably priced I would suggest trying a box of Federal Fusion 150 grain ammunition. it seems to shoot quite well in all the .270's I have tried it though.

 

[bewsher500]

jesus no!
Its the only round I would never buy again. never had a good time with Federal.
I may have had some bad luck with a particular batch and to be fair I am not sure if they were "Fusion" but apart from destroying anything they hit they werent particularly consistent in the other 270 I use.
I had to buy some in HMR recently as the CCI were out of stock. 1 in 10 of the cases split. shocking.

Anyway, I digress.
bit of an update

during my recent strip down and post mortem of the rifle in question I discovered the front action screw through the floor plate hinge was somewhat loose.
to say it was finger tight would be an overstatement! I slipped off with the screwdriver as it turned so quickly.
I put it back in at an estimate of the tension it was under and I reckon there was probably 1-2mm of play in the action when you pushed the barrel away from the fore end.
Now if this was consistent I am assuming it would still group, but if it was gradually working looser and looser with each shot would that in some way explain the poor grouping?

I also took the opportunity to clean out the barrel groove in the forend and with the associated crap that had accumulated in there removed I can now slide a piece of A4 all the way to the join of the barrel and action.

Now tempted to try the targets out again before I go down any defouling routine in case that is the problem solved. Dont want cause another issue by cleaning something out that may not be causing any other problem!

decisions decisions!!

 

[finnbear270]

Loosely fitted stocks will destroy any hope of decent groups.

 

[bewsher500]

thats what I am thinking, I may skip the clean and see what they produce now