Do we really believe this?

[Jax]

If only the antis would direct some of their energy at banning certain types of fencing. Ive emailed BDS a photo or two of trapped deer in the hope they can be used one day. Not sure they will, but you never know.

Wasn’t there a government grant scheme to help install double strand barbed wire stock fencing?

the latest casualty I found was a young roe that tried getting through the lower squares. Both back legs were caught as the hips wouldn’t go through. Seen muntjac do the same on slatted timber fencing

 

[Firefly]

I can’t count the number of deer I’ve taken off fences ( dispatched not released) in East Sussex , double strand barbed wire above stock fencing ought to be called deer trap fencing .We shoot three or four every year without fail on one of my estates that have a lot of that type of fencing close by ..on well used paths we have installed deer crossing points to limit the damage ..

Same here, East Sussex also. It seems to be a real trend around here.

 

[highseat6.5]

Same here, East Sussex also. It seems to be a real trend around here.

When they replaced some fencing on one of the estates I did point out the likely problem that would arise if the used the double strand of barbed wire pulled tight , but the fencing contractor assured them it wouldn’t be a problem .Three weeks in I was called out twice to despatch trapped deer , one of which they had released after it had been caught up for several hours overnight , but it had laid down just a few metres away and I despatched it were it lay . To be fair the estate had the middle strand removed and replaced with plain wire that was not stretched tight , we only had one more caught that year and with the addition of some crossing points it generally resolved the problem ..

 

[badbob]

Double top wire or new wire on an old fence are lethal combinations. Small deer just suspend upside down and die found 3 muntjac on a 100 yard length. I would guess the strength and weight of a bigger deer would eventually break off the limb . I've tried freeing fallow but without bolt croppers and in view of the damage to the leg had to shoot them.

 

[Firefly]

When they replaced some fencing on one of the estates I did point out the likely problem that would arise if the used the double strand of barbed wire pulled tight , but the fencing contractor assured them it wouldn’t be a problem .Three weeks in I was called out twice to despatch trapped deer , one of which they had released after it had been caught up for several hours overnight , but it had laid down just a few metres away and I despatched it were it lay . To be fair the estate had the middle strand removed and replaced with plain wire that was not stretched tight , we only had one more caught that year and with the addition of some crossing points it generally resolved the problem ..

I had to shoot one only yesterday. Walking on a stump but had done very badly, skinny as hell and sitting under a bush. No fear of man. One released released here a few weeks ago by some well meaning individuals, so it may have been this one. We have crossing points too which are useful but deer aren’t the sharpest tools in the box sometimes

 

[Dunwaters]

BDS, BASC et al won’t challenge the farmers and landowners putting the fences up.
Packham might, it’d give him something useful to do.
Sooo it won’t happen.

 

[Oldstalker]

BDS, BASC et al won’t challenge the farmers and landowners putting the fences up.
Packham might, it’d give him something useful to do.
Sooo it won’t happen.

BDS did challenge this a lot of years ago. I cannot remember which year it was - I did 17 years on the old management c'tree or the board of trustees. My guess is it would have been mid to late-90s and we had several goes at the then MAFF about double stranded top wires and grant aid. We said they should not specify it and certainly not grant aid it. As it was not very many years before Foot and Mouth it was probably in the late 90s.
PLEASE do not lump BDS in with BASC; they are VERY different organisations. BDS is a research, education and training charity. BASC did not help BDS over Training, and were disingenuous about use of the Training Manual and course fees when setting up their own Deer Department. I do believe they have improved somewhat under the current management.

 

[Dunwaters]

BDS did challenge this a lot of years ago. I cannot remember which year it was - I did 17 years on the old management c'tree or the board of trustees. My guess is it would have been mid to late-90s and we had several goes at the then MAFF about double stranded top wires and grant aid. We said they should not specify it and certainly not grant aid it. As it was not very many years before Foot and Mouth it was probably in the late 90s.
PLEASE do not lump BDS in with BASC; they are VERY different organisations. BDS is a research, education and training charity. BASC did not help BDS over Training, and were disingenuous about use of the Training Manual and course fees. I do believe they have improved somewhat under the current management.

Sorry, no offence intended but you sort of prove my point, if ya want results, get the Packham, bet that sucker could get Friday night banned....ooohh, sorry again Boris already did that.

 

[Ronin]

The article is yet another example of lack of understanding of “antis” have of the countryside they so vitriolically attempt to “protect”

Poaching - likely to see hind quarter injuries from bites or infected puncture wounds / missing jaws from poorly placed head shots taken under a lamp

The injuries displayed in the piece are typical of double strand wire that and clinks and grikes in limestone pavement are typically the most common cause of broken / severed lower legs in our area

 

[sikamalc]

As already mentioned its usually fencing that is the main cause of deer loosing a back leg, or the bottom half of a back leg. Dont see that many on my areas, but on the odd occasion I have dispatched one or two over the years.
Poaching is most unlikely to be the cause of such an injury in my opinion.

 

[CarlW]

We really don't need more stuff banned. And farmers don't need rules from an urban government on how they fence their own properties. Farmers and fencers are country people and generally great lovers of wildlife. Simply show people the benefits of doing it differently and they may well change.

Banning stuff is a very blunt tool: a tool favoured very much by the enemies of shooting.

 

[Gamekeeperwill]

Trouble is, once something like this is publicised there's no going back, Joe public will read it once and be sold.this amongst other things is giving the sport in general a bad name. Since shooting got into the media its opened us up for more and more uneducated antis to deliver devastating blows to the industry. Before the days of YouTube and social media antis had very little ammunition, but certain people advertise what we do, it may be legal and above board but all antis see is bambi. I think people need to think very hard about posting things online for the world to see, wheres the harm in keeping your forays to yourself.

 

[pendle]

A few years ago I found dead fallow doe in are woods from dog injuries . Back end damage lower jaw ripped off and both ears cut clean off by poachers . I skinned it on the request of the land owner to see if it had a bullet wound . None where found .Pictures where taken passed on to the Landowner police and DI .

Looking back over the years at the cull returns
I have shot 8 with lower limbs missing and an other 5 with damage to the leg in keeping with fence damage
The bucks also showed the stunted antler growth due to injuries sustained

 

[mudman]

We really don't need more stuff banned. And farmers don't need rules from an urban government on how they fence their own properties. Farmers and fencers are country people and generally great lovers of wildlife. Simply show people the benefits of doing it differently and they may well change.

Banning stuff is a very blunt tool: a tool favoured very much by the enemies of shooting.

how about remove the grant (or whatever it is called now) incentive for new fencing consisting of netting topped with two strands of barbed wire. It is everywhere now, even alongside fields that have not seen stock never mind cattle in generations.

 

[mudman]

BDS, BASC et al won’t challenge the farmers and landowners putting the fences up.
Packham might, it’d give him something useful to do.
Sooo it won’t happen.

good point...where the hell are BDS in this, they are a deer welfare organisation after all, after RTC this has to be the major deer welfare issue across the UK. What are they not campaigning for changes to the fence / grant / payment structure?!?!

 

[lanber123]

Sorry to butt into this landowner/farmer/fencing contractor bashing but keeping livestock on your holding is the aim of this type of fence and I've not read any reasonable alternatives! Or have I missed something?

 

[mudman]

Sorry to butt into this landowner/farmer/fencing contractor bashing but keeping livestock on your holding is the aim of this type of fence and I've not read any reasonable alternatives! Or have I missed something?

but this fencing seems to be the go to grant aided field boundary type. Often used where there are no stock to keep in, and often when there is it is sheep which I believe do not need the top two strands of wire to protect the netting below. Stock including sheep was keep in fields for generations before sheep net topped with two strands of barbed wire became endemic

 

[rms364]

Problem is ‘Joe Public’ has lost the ability to think for themselves and seem to believe any old shite fed to them from someone with an agenda. The problem is not the people with the agenda as we’ll always have people with a different view, but our organisations we subscribe to that aren’t proactive enough in our ways and why fors. Surely we have talented individuals that can come up with weekly if not daily articles that are factual, truthful and interesting for Joe and his mates to read and you never know , some of it might just sink in and the penny may eventually drop that “most” hunting is pro conservation. Even I find it hard to justify these mega commercial game shoots but there’s far more to crow about than shooting hundreds of pheasants surely !!

 

[User00033]

Fences are horrible things really, necessary of course, but such a pain in the arse. We use two wire electric for cattle in easy country, but hill country sheep will always be the 7 or 9 wire post & baton. They catch fallow and red yearlings regularly, and it never nice to find them like this.

It is notable that here at least, the concept of poaching and evil deeds never gets a mention when deer with damaged or lost legs are encountered. Wouldn’t even be considered. Everyone knows its fences. Dogs do completely different type of damage to deer.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Surely if a deer gets a leg between the line wires on ordinary stock net the result will be the same. The verticals will stop it twisting up tight (assuming the fence is in good nick) but it would still trap a leg