Ready for DSC2 ?????

[JC275]

Deer stalkin level2, Three stalks in a weekend on park deer as advertised on ebay used to be the norm. Don't know if they still do it. It would be difficult to pass from stalk one. However it would not take many grallochs to gain the required competence. Most coming in will have handled other game.
While I may not remember that the submax is in the lower jaw I would have little difficulty telling the head vet the lymgh node on the gut was swollen.
The fact that there are a lot of stalker that treat the gralloch like gutting a big rabbit and cash in asap is the reason the wane bill is getting so much credibility. If successful the registered stalkers only could decimate stalker numbers especially the next generation stalkers.
Jim

Sorry Jim, I wasn't arguing with you, I suppose that its a case of variable levels of professionalisn. I know the standards that I expect. I assume that you have done DSC2 in order to have such strong opinions on it so you must have completed a portfolio to the standard that the AW, Assessor and IV expected at the time.

As for 'selling' DSC2 on ebay, if you have specific and accurate knowledge of an abuse of the system then please report it to DMQ, if you don't wish to then send me the details including dates and names and I will.

I'm afraid that I don't understand your last paragraph, sorry.

JC

 

[finnbear270]

JC- for me it's not so much the location but the names of them.
I agree that DSC1 is basic level, hence this post on what we would expect to have to know more of in the L2 when performing a gralloch e.g to know the names.
But I suppose this is all down to your AW as well, so it seems best bet would be to have a face to face with him

Level one may be considered a basic grounding in the knowledge required, but it is still broad based enough to include how & where to find the glands & also the names of these glands are also taught, (or at least they were when I did mine)

 

[andibrains]

I was under the impression, and I may be wrong, but I have a recollection of reading the level 2 portfolio and you only have to identify two lymph nodes. In my personal experience I dont think it means diddly squat whether you can name them or not aslong as you can find em when asked which is totally different. Level two is practical application of the level one and there is absolutely nothing to stop someone passing who has very limitied experience. It took me time to learn how to stalk but just because I have the type of mind that is geared to remembering names and facts etc. I could have gralloched, located and named all of the lymph nodes after just watching, and lending a hand with the dsc level 1 gralloch performed by one of the bds guys. If your confident in your knowledge and ability and have the money then you are fully entitled to go in for your level two, if you feel you are not ready then dont, simple really.

Also, I may be way off base here but as I understand it the level required for the DMQ level 2 is preset by the portfolio, it is not a case of individual interpretation of the standards. The candidate can either fullfill the requirements or he can't. Does not say about being able to name them:-

3.3 Inspect carcass, organs
and lymph sites for normality
according to legal requirements.
Carcass inspected for notifiable
diseases.
Internal inspection to include
mesenteric lymph
nodes, thoracic organs,
retropharyngeal and
sub-maxillary lymph nodes and
reproductive organs. Head and​

hooves inspected

 

[JC275]

Fair enough, I give up. I will refrain from offering any further advice on DSC related subjects. I will also give up offering the free training that many people have benefited from. What do I know anyway! JC

 

[stone]

I was under the impression, and I may be wrong, but I have a recollection of reading the level 2 portfolio and you only have to identify two lymph nodes. In my personal experience I dont think it means diddly squat whether you can name them or not aslong as you can find em when asked which is totally different. Level two is practical application of the level one and there is absolutely nothing to stop someone passing who has very limitied experience. It took me time to learn how to stalk but just because I have the type of mind that is geared to remembering names and facts etc. I could have gralloched, located and named all of the lymph nodes after just watching, and lending a hand with the dsc level 1 gralloch performed by one of the bds guys. If your confident in your knowledge and ability and have the money then you are fully entitled to go in for your level two, if you feel you are not ready then dont, simple really.

Also, I may be way off base here but as I understand it the level required for the DMQ level 2 is preset by the portfolio, it is not a case of individual interpretation of the standards. The candidate can either fullfill the requirements or he can't. Does not say about being able to name them:-

3.3 Inspect carcass, organs
and lymph sites for normality
according to legal requirements.
Carcass inspected for notifiable
diseases.
Internal inspection to include
mesenteric lymph
nodes, thoracic organs,
retropharyngeal and
sub-maxillary lymph nodes and
reproductive organs. Head and​

hooves inspected

Andibrains
from my experience of it all
I would need you to know all them and be able to find them and show them all to me with out me asking you
As an AW I would want you to take the lead and show me what you know in detail , so you are satisfying my mind that you hav an idea of what you are talking about
so yes only having to name 2 nodes or glands may be right but which 2 is the question????

Everything is candidate driven I agree but what if the candidate like yourself has a good memory but not the knowledge
would that candidate that has only ever been shown on Roe or fallow be able to meeet a required standard you speak of on muntjac and even more so find all the glands and nodes on a muntjac, as they are are a lot smaller and harder to find
this is where experience does matter and I would hope you had that than over a text book that you've revised from
as for quoting 3.3
how do you interpret that out of interest???????

 

[andibrains]

Im not having a go at anyone or trying to for that matter, I apologise if it has come across as such. The point I was trying to make was that for level 2 a candidate has to meet a set of criteria set out by the porfolio. In order for the assessments to be fair and transparent it has to be done by the guidlines set out in the portfolio and is not down to personal interpretation of the assessor. Experience has little to do with it if they meet the criteria. There is nothing that says you have to do it on mutiple species either.

To use the car analogy that I have seen on here a few times, there is nothing to stop someone who has never driven a car from passing there driving test tomorrow. OK this is tenuous and highly unlikely, but not impossible.

Like I say I wasnt having a go just trying to put another side to the arguement, this is afterall an open forum for open discussion.

As for 3.3 if a candidate can show you all those things and checks them everytime does it matter if he knows the name of the individual lymph node?

 

[devilishdave]

sign up for it go out, if you are at a loss on the first one get the assessor to turn it in to a teaching session then do a further three; bobs your unckle!

Dave

 

[Thar]

I have to agree with JC275 and Stone on this,

My own view is that Level 2 has become a hoop for some stalkers to jump though, when it first came out I felt it was a qualification that had real merit, people that held it had real experience in the field, and it would not be held by just the well read and researched individuals. It was about practical experience. Now it seems that some think all it is about is, reading up, learn the bear minimum to meet the criteria and away you go. I feel the organisers have tried to tighten up on this by making all stalks be witnessed by an AW. I have said this before and will say it again; I would like to see a bear minimum of deer to be shot by any candidate before they would be allowed to start a Level 2 portfolio, 50 deer IMO.

Speaking to friends that are AW some of the stories I have heard of people coming to take there level 2 have been comical. I felt it was telling when I did my Level 2 that as a leisure stalker who shoots no were near as many deer as other stalkers on here like JC275 that I was compliment on my level of experience, I thought if that impresses him what is the normal level of experience of people doing the Level 2? I know of several people that have shot single figure number of deer and have level 2. One friend of mine didn’t have a clue how to do a basic gralloch when shooting with me but in 6 months have level 2, yet from being clueless to being fully competent in 6 deer including 3 for level 2?????

I think a lot of the blame for this can be laid at the FC door, no DSC2 no access to FC land, stalkers get it because they think it will get them access to cheap (not likely on FC land) stalking, rightly or wrongly who can blame them?

ATB

Tahr

 

[devilishdave]

I guess there are plenty of people out there who have shot 50 animals who couldn't pass DSC2. Practice doesn't make perfect in it's own right. perfect practice makes perfect. Having said that I had shot IRO 120 animals before DSC2 as I didn't see a need for it. Basicly the land owner dictated that to stalk there DSC2 was required hence bothering to do it. This is becoming more common.

Dave

 

[stone]

The point I was trying to make was that for level 2 a candidate has to meet a set of criteria set out by the porfolio. In order for the assessments to be fair and transparent it has to be done by the guidlines set out in the portfolio and is not down to personal interpretation of the assessor. Experience has little to do with it if they meet the criteria. There is nothing that says you have to do it on mutiple species either.


?

From the way I see it there is no set criteria just a set of gudelines to work from
this alters from each species of deer you stalk to the different type of ground you stalk on
An AW on the day has to in his/her own mind establish what you hav done is of an exceptable level for them to be happy to sign your ICR
there is no right or wrong way just an exceptable way that works
as there is no set standard on how to stalk or when to pull the trigger or at what distance
just on the day you need to show your are competent
But as Devillish says
Sign up for L2 and give it a go
You hav 3 years to complete and in that time you should hav a better idea about it all
ATB

 

[6pointer]

LEARN LEARN LEARN To many going for it before they are ready whats the rush

 

[andibrains]

Like I say, just trying to play devils advocate. I actually agree with getting the experience first, I just wanted to make the point that numbers mean nothing. You could do something wrong 50+ times and be perfectly confident in what your doing. Somebody who goes out with an experienced stalker (somebody who is an experienced AW or better) and recieves proper instruction can make huge leaps in knowledge and experience. The guy that mentored me, after I got my level 1 made me treat every stalk like a level two stalk with him as accredited witness explaining everything I was doing and answering questions. I understand tho that this is more like specific training than learning through experience. I have to agree that FC insisting on the level two has meant that it is seen as a mere hurdle to be overcome.

 

[jimbo123p]

Some people have a better retentative knowledge for big words than others. Bit like an old custommer I had when I was landscape contracting. I maintained her garden. Ex schoolteacher fluent latin. She would ask for a special plant in a name you could not pronounce. I would ask her to write it to take to the garden centre. Would turn out to be a daisy or a pansy. For someone with a less retentative knowledge if asked for the locations of the lymph nodes to be checked would not Jaw, Neck, Windpipe, Lungs, Liver and Gut not suffice. There is a lot of very experienced stalkers out there that know their stuff witout knowing their Latin.
Jim

 

[andibrains]

My point exactly Jimbo

 

[Uncle Buck]

As you are aware you cannot Fail your DSC 2 It is not a test you simply continue until you have reached the required level of competence.
So I would suggest you do your DSC2 and accompanied stalks as soon as possible....As those in charge will keep changing the goal posts.....
in line with those whose jobs seemingly require them to justify their existance by "improving" matters .... and the sooner you do these with current training .... the easier it will be.... and sadly DSC2 is actually required now by the said "landowners" more often than not if bidding individually or looking to join a syndicate ....

In my opinion it is just a licence to print money for all involved, never the less I am in the process of finalizing my own.

BEST OF LUCK, BUCK.

 

[jimbo123p]

Dats ma portfolio enroute back to BASC. The wait begins

 

[6pointer]

I dont think there sould be a problem Jimbo123p Its just part of the process.

 

[Schiehallion]

I personally don't understand those who give excuses for not remembering the names of lymph nodes. Its not as if you are required to memorise the oxford dictionary!.
If a candidate did not know the names of them then we have no common language, and "neck" and "gut" would not be a demonstration to me that he/she has put in the effort.
What next... "those two brown lump things with **** in look normal" or " its ticker was slack inside its sack".
I could not sign off a PC where the incorrect terminology was applied.
Have pride in yourself and do the thing properly.. or not at all.
S.

 

[taln]

billy have you finally given in.good luck with your level two,thought you had already sat some of it.you cerainly dont need a bit of paper to shoot deer as you have done for years.surely if you could point out where the lymph nodes are that should be enough.its a bit naff on people that are not versed in big words but are very good stalkers with loads of practical experience

 

[Uncle Buck]

billy have you finally given in.good luck with your level two,thought you had already sat some of it.you cerainly dont need a bit of paper to shoot deer as you have done for years.surely if you could point out where the lymph nodes are that should be enough.its a bit naff on people that are not versed in big words but are very good stalkers with loads of practical experience

Yes steve, thanks for contact no. No probs, I take it you'll be next in line. (see you Sat.)

Rgds, Buck.