22 LR Copper Bullets

[Foxyboy43]

Just read quite an extensive article in a certain magazine which reported favourably on manufacturers’ response to potential demand for lead-free 22 LR bullets. As an observation it is evident that these do work and indeed seem to perform generally very well but one important point that hasn’t been covered is the fact that the 22 LR is already notorious for ricochets and copper bullets being harder and travelling a lot faster (because they are substantially lighter) may well increase this problem significantly. Conversely the increased speed may of course cause greater fragmentation on impact and thus a reduction in ricochet - anyone have any information on this important development or indeed opinions?

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

What weight of bullet are they talking about using?

 

[bowji john]

What about dimensions, sectional density and drag coefficients ?

How much longer will the bullet be to keep at least some similarity in weight

22 rifles are often cut so that the rounds are touching or jammed into the lands

What will it mean for existing rifles if the bullets are both tougher and even longer

How will longer bullets work in standard 1 - 16 twist

Will longer bullets even feed?

Cleaning regimes will have to change with copper fouling becoming an issue

What will it mean for barrel harmonics and accuracy of people's existing rifles when just a change in current ammo manufacturer can significantly affect group size

Just some of the questions that run through my mind

PS

If any of the above necessitate a change in rifle that is going to be a real downer!

Also I suspect we can forget American manufacturers as I can't believe they would be bothered to chamber for anything other than lead

 

[Foxyboy43]

I think CCI and Hornady are the big players. See attached table - courtesy of that magazine just don’t tell ‘em!


Class discuss

 

[BryanDC]

It looks like they are comparing the CCI copper-22 with a standard lead round that is copper plated.

 

[bowji john]

Accuracy of an inch at 50 yards would be absolutely useless for any of my applications

 

[Foxyboy43]

It looks like they are comparing the CCI copper-22 with a standard lead round that is copper plated.

Yep - CCI Copper and Hornady Copper-plated lead. CCI has very fast velocity/energy but as with all light bullets drops off quickly, also accuracy not great compared to the Hornady. Interesting though.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

There’s nothing favourable about this.
Firstly bang goes the stealth of the 22lr for those noise sensitive jobs.
Plus the accuracy doesn’t make good reading when my trusty old 452 will single hole all day long with Eley subs at 30yds.
BASC and the rest of them have sold each and every one of us down the river.

 

[CarlW]

Don't give up. So far, BASC have only sold us out on lead shot with their voluntary lead ban. They haven't yet sold us out on rifle ammunition, although no doubt intend to at some point.

The more people leave that despicable organisation and decline to join this anti-lead nonsense the better.

Don't be despondent. Fight them!

 

[takbok]

It looks like Norma and RWS are also offering 24/25gr options. I look forward to trying them - flatter trajectory is a plus if you can live with them being supersonic.

Norma ECO Power-22

www.norma-ammunition.com

Lead-free .22 LR rimfire cartridges from RWS for hunting and sport - High Velocity Green and HV Green Fragmentation

RWS new lead-free rimfire cartridges in the Filed Line* RWS High Velocity Green: copper plating zinc bullets* HV Green Fragmentation* Ballistic data, prices

www.all4shooters.com

 

[Kalahari]

Won't be as quiet, but might be interesting for @bowji john and his 160 yard stuff with a 22, If it holds supersonic for that far.

David.

 

[Cottis]

The whole point of the .22LR is it being subsonic and cheap to shoot at ranges below 75yds.

Unless they can design ammunition at a similar price point (a bit more expensive I am ok with) which can operate below the speed of sound, kill humanely and realise accuracy of 1/2" @ 50yds, then it is basically bull****.

I have no issue with evolution but by definition, it must be for the better or why bother evolving. I am not wedded to lead for eternity. I am a fan because it works. If something else can work as well (or preferably better) then I am all for it. Until that happens I have no interest in it. And research and design and testing must come before these **** poor agencies move to ban, voluntary or not, the very foundation of what we do. They really could not organise a PU in a brewery.

 

[bowji john]

Won't be as quiet, but might be interesting for @bowji john and his 160 yard stuff with a 22, If it holds supersonic for that far.

David.

Could be problem for me with shooting using supersonic rounds - it would eventually wear thin with the neighbours in the valley

Also

Even my 452 can hold an inch and half at 100m; , <3" at 150m

Anything worse than that and there is nothing to be learned from using a .22LR in a precision shooting application

I'd have to go to .17 HMR or 204 but that would require distances greater than my place would allow safely and still provide a challenge

The great thing of using .22LR is that the precise wind and distance calls you have to make over the modest distances (from the point of view of a range size) of up to 200m are very similar to those of centre fire out to 1000m and beyond

 

[12gsnapcaps]

If all your .22lr rounds are supersonic just get a .17hmr and have a better round in every way.

The only reason my 22lr comes out the cabinet now is for when i want to shoot silently. For every other application the HMR is superior.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

If all your .22lr rounds are supersonic just get a .17hmr and have a better round in every way.

The only reason my 22lr comes out the cabinet now is for when i want to shoot silently. For every other application the HMR is superior.

I think you’re missing the point, if the lead ban comes in your 22lr will no longer be silent or as accurate, therefore useless in that application.
The debate on 22lr or HMR for rabbits isn’t really relevant.
Also you say the HMR is a superior round, will this be the case if it’s effected by a lead ban? Will it fragment the same way as it does now, if it doesn’t there’s going to be metal flying around at scary speeds lol.

 

[Crowstalker]

I sincerely hope lead is not banned for any gun be that rifle or shotgun, its a great way to strangle the life out of our sport and kiss it goodnight. I will be resisting any attempts to ban lead for this reason.

 

[Foxyboy43]

I think you’re missing the point, if the lead ban comes in your 22lr will no longer be silent or as accurate, therefore useless in that application.
The debate on 22lr or HMR for rabbits isn’t really relevant.
Also you say the HMR is a superior round, will this be the case if it’s effected by a lead ban? Will it fragment the same way as it does now, if it doesn’t there’s going to be metal flying around at scary speeds lol.

There is 17hmr lead-free made by Hornady available now. I just bought a box, from memory only just over 15gns and speed not that different from 17gns. Have yet to try them but will do soon and report back.

 

[sauer]

I thought that CCI copper was made by compressed copper dust basically?
and as for ricochet im sure I read somewhere it was like a varmint round and basically blew up when hit something ?

 

[StephenToast]

I thought that CCI copper was made by compressed copper dust basically?
and as for ricochet im sure I read somewhere it was like a varmint round and basically blew up when hit something ?

I think that's the theory. The RWS non lead .22 LR is fragmenting also although to what degree I'm not sure.

I'm lead free in shotgun and full bore but not my .22lr. For me the performance isn't there so far. Not that I have really truly experimented yet. If there aren't any improvements and lead ammo is banned in the near future I imagine that I'll be looking at FAC air to try to fill the subsonic niche.