foxhunter
Well-Known Member
You are so negative arent you .
How would you address the problem all knowledgeable one ?
SGA response to proposed Scottish Deer Management changes
- Thread starter RF76
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How would you address the problem all knowledgeable one ?
David Barker
Well-Known Member
“Sorry it is you that is deluded unless this new legislation applies only to contract or public SERVANTS. I have seen the mess that Contractors have left in the FLS larders i have held the lamp while numerous deer were wounded and lost. ”
Maybe I read your post wrong?
You did read it wrong or just thought you would be clever
That would not work as you are asking Rec deer managers to pay for the use of a fridge to the tune of £2000. When government contractors are not charged for there chiller it comes with the contract. They also get paid 100 - 120 per carcass. 80 carcasses would pay in the region of £8000 - £9600.
You are suggesting a penalty if a target is not reached. This while carcasses not fit for human consumption were offered at a government chillers with out penalty and moneys received for them.
The last three are all irrelevant as with out a proper realistic plan ,information sharing would never happen.
Now FLS Mange 9% of Scotland land mass. That leaves 91%. There is no way on earth that they can significantly lower the number on the NFE with out full support of Rec Deer managers. It does not matter if you get thermal grenade launchers you will not succeed and this has been known for many years. The problem is how do you include the rec deer managers. Your Answer to that is let them pay for facility's that are free to others. Let them information share. It would provide a starting point for knowledge sharing and why would they want that. Maybe i am wrong and the answer lies with the current plan (Throw as much money at the problem as you and hopefully no one will notice that i am a fool till after i retire.}
Maybe I read your post wrong?
You did read it wrong or just thought you would be clever
That would not work as you are asking Rec deer managers to pay for the use of a fridge to the tune of £2000. When government contractors are not charged for there chiller it comes with the contract. They also get paid 100 - 120 per carcass. 80 carcasses would pay in the region of £8000 - £9600.
You are suggesting a penalty if a target is not reached. This while carcasses not fit for human consumption were offered at a government chillers with out penalty and moneys received for them.
The last three are all irrelevant as with out a proper realistic plan ,information sharing would never happen.
Now FLS Mange 9% of Scotland land mass. That leaves 91%. There is no way on earth that they can significantly lower the number on the NFE with out full support of Rec Deer managers. It does not matter if you get thermal grenade launchers you will not succeed and this has been known for many years. The problem is how do you include the rec deer managers. Your Answer to that is let them pay for facility's that are free to others. Let them information share. It would provide a starting point for knowledge sharing and why would they want that. Maybe i am wrong and the answer lies with the current plan (Throw as much money at the problem as you and hopefully no one will notice that i am a fool till after i retire.}
David Barker
Well-Known Member
Give me something to be positive about regards what is happening in the deer sector.
@theroedeerguy
Well-Known Member
Let’s look at solutions, forums are never 100% accurate with the point folks are trying to make.
I’m suggesting that a decent chiller worth £2k is provided with no cost to the recreational stalker but on the proviso it needs to have deer put through it and isn’t for display purposes only.
Venison sales costs returned to the stalker so if they’re presenting substandard carcasses then they get penalised.
If the recreational stalker can’t make the contribution to cull targets then they either come out of the scheme or pay a financial penalty for the hire of the chiller.
The massive difficulty with recreational stalkers is that many are just that and don’t want to spend their spare time stalking in the way a professional does.
I’m not taking away from anyone’s skills or experience but the difference is massive and some people don’t want to be going out and shooting more than 1 deer per outing.
Devils in the detail but for the greater part it’s a job of work and a very physical one at that for young fit and driven people with an infrastructure in place. Recreational stalkers depending on situation just carry on or up their game if capable or willing to do so, seems simples but never is
The population is increasing so we aren't that efficient
David Barker
Well-Known Member
I know what you said and it will never work. Now if you really want to reduce deer numbers you would need to do it over a very large area.
Solution. Pay the Rec deer managers £60 per female carcass and £30 for each male as a bounty for want of a more acceptable word. Let them keep the carcass and deal with it as they like.
Open the female season for Roe deer from 1st Oct until 15th of April. Males from 16th of April till 30th of September. No out of season unless Nature .
Contractors to be paid £150 per female deer and £50 for each male. Mandatory time spend on male deer from mind April to mind June (Roe deer active moving to new ground and active rubbing).
All deer managers in the scheme to have Minimum
DCS or equivalent.
You said "The massive difficulty with recreational stalkers is that many are just that and don’t want to spend their spare time stalking in the way a professional does." That might be the case but i do not see the relevance. The Average deer culled by Rec Deer managers is 8.7 in Scotland. With over 2500 wandering about the countryside that is still over 20.000 deer you get for free. Now put a bonus on the deer and offer a proper out let and watch that number triple. I mean the only difference between a pro and a rec is the pro gets paid. Lets try and level up.
Solution. Pay the Rec deer managers £60 per female carcass and £30 for each male as a bounty for want of a more acceptable word. Let them keep the carcass and deal with it as they like.
Open the female season for Roe deer from 1st Oct until 15th of April. Males from 16th of April till 30th of September. No out of season unless Nature .
Contractors to be paid £150 per female deer and £50 for each male. Mandatory time spend on male deer from mind April to mind June (Roe deer active moving to new ground and active rubbing).
All deer managers in the scheme to have Minimum
DCS or equivalent.You said "The massive difficulty with recreational stalkers is that many are just that and don’t want to spend their spare time stalking in the way a professional does." That might be the case but i do not see the relevance. The Average deer culled by Rec Deer managers is 8.7 in Scotland. With over 2500 wandering about the countryside that is still over 20.000 deer you get for free. Now put a bonus on the deer and offer a proper out let and watch that number triple. I mean the only difference between a pro and a rec is the pro gets paid. Lets try and level up.
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@theroedeerguy
Well-Known Member
I think the danger with a bounty scheme might be the same as the single farm payment where some landowners would perhaps want their cut of it or see it as a means of income and it wouldn’t reach the stalker.
Season extension is fine but I don’t know how much uptake there would be in a recreational setting for culling Roe does in April?
foxhunter
Well-Known Member
Swerved the question there .
How is the problem solved ?
David Barker
Well-Known Member
I see no issue with landowners and i see no issue with season extension with in limits. I do see real benefit in targeting the correct animals. Paying more for females is a no brainer as they determine the next generation and if it will increase or decrease. I know throwing cash at a very small area of Scotland might have some rubbing there hands with glee. But it will never reduce or re leave the problem. A real look at population dynamics of roe deer is needed to be put forward to the Minister so that the likes of Hugh Dignam dose not fill there head full of fairy,s
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David Barker
Well-Known Member
Do you want me to Answer twice
. But i am looking for all that is positive from you. This if you manage deer in Scotland ?
jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
I watched a 1080 drop when in NZ, it was next to the site I was working on in the Bay Of Islands, all day wagon after wagon turned up and a helicopter took large bags "similar to the bags ya get a ton of sand in" and dropped 1080 all over Island after island, it was sickening to watch.
Jimmy.
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