DMQ level 1 and 2 changes

[cjm1066]

Biggest change is that the AW can spot the deer and inform the candidate. As we all know spotting a deer can be the start of a stalk (candidate led for DMQ), or raise your gun and shoot.

 

[Cris]

So having done level 1, you’re suggested people pay for more courses/experiences before they apply for level 2?
For those people with their own permissions they can’t get stuck into the deer themselves after passing dsc1 to gain the experience required for dsc2 as they can’t sell them

Again they can site the NGO Game Meat Hygiene course as a stand alone and not have to worry about DSC 1 or 2 to sell their venison in the fur to a Approved Game Dealer.

 

[baguio]

Biggest change is that the AW can spot the deer and inform the candidate. As we all know spotting a deer can be the start of a stalk (candidate led for DMQ), or raise your gun and shoot.

That's a good thing IMO. The stalking bit isn't a level playing field at all anyway. Far from it! The gralloch and inspection is the important thing. The fact that someone isn't a very good stalker and usually bumps the deer is no ones issue but his own, If he doesn't get lucky very often then so what? However, when he does get lucky he needs to prepare the carcass properly because that could be someone else's problem?

 

[jim_allen_uk]

Again they can site the NGO Game Meat Hygiene course as a stand alone and not have to worry about DSC 1 or 2 to sell their venison in the fur to a Approved Game Dealer.

I agree. For a lot of people it will make no sense doing dsc1 as you might as well do the stand alone course via the NGO now.
Which is a shame as at least having it included with dsc1 encouraged people to do it and pick up some useful deer stalking theory and knowledge.

 

[baguio]

Again they can site the NGO Game Meat Hygiene course as a stand alone and not have to worry about DSC 1 or 2 to sell their venison in the fur to a Approved Game Dealer.

Not free though is it?

 

[Dickie]

So the level 2 was a recognition of experience, now you can pass the level1 go out with an AW straight after the course, see a deer jump out the truck shoot it off the bonnet, do the gralloch correctly and boom level 2 in the bag.
Standby for some form of level 3 to be invented.

 

[CarlW]

Wouldn't you think that, while reviewing and updating their courses about deer-stalking, DMQ would consult some deer-stalkers?

Imagine there were some kind of public forum where the world's largest collection of deer-stalkers gathered to discuss and share good practice? If such a thing existed, surely one would exploit that resource...?

 

[Shootgun]

We're all different. Some may have shot thousands of deer before even attending DSC1. To say that they can't go on to DSC2 until a certain time frame has elapsed is ridiculous and insulting.

How about those they got from zero to hero in the space of a few months?

 

[baguio]

How about those they got from zero to hero in the space of a few months?

If they have reached the standard then what about it?

 

[Cris]

Not free though is it?

Not much in life is free.

 

[oxfordshirestalker]

If they have reached the standard then what about it?

This is exactly where the ‘driving test’ vs ‘proof of experience’ comes in.

In my opinion, the 3 ICRs vs 1 was akin to 3 driving tests rather than proof of experience.

 

[Cris]

I agree. For a lot of people it will make no sense doing dsc1 as you might as well do the stand alone course via the NGO now.
Which is a shame as at least having it included with dsc1 encouraged people to do it and pick up some useful deer stalking theory and knowledge.

As I see it there are two parts to this.
1. Training of new or inexperienced stalkers who would benefit from a course.
2. The need to have a qualification to sell to venison in the fir by those either trained sufficiently or experienced sufficiently.
DSC has a place but there are many different ways to achieve proficiency of stalkers.

 

[baguio]

This is exactly where the ‘driving test’ vs ‘proof of experience’ comes in.

In my opinion, the 3 ICRs vs 1 was akin to 3 driving tests rather than proof of experience.

A gralloch is a gralloch though. If you can do it and explain what you're looking for then I guess you can do it 3 times?

 

[baguio]

Not much in life is free.

Exactly. Similar price to DSC2

 

[oxfordshirestalker]

A gralloch is a gralloch though. If you can do it and explain what you're looking for then I guess you can do it 3 times?

Oh, I completely completely agree! As said earlier, not much point in repetition unless there is a big difference (new pathology seen etc).

 

[patrickt]

Much as though courses have their place, they are normally no substitute for real-world experience. This is often best gained by paid stalking or generous offers by a local stalker.

Is this not what Iam suggesting. When we started to learn to drive, our friends relations gave us hands on experience, and did not want any payment, in the absence of that, then we took driving lessons, so transpose this example to stalking, or indeed any other skill, that's what Iam advocating, clumsily, or otherwise. I don't suggest that you just turn up for an assessment saying I'm here where is the exam paper. My advice ethos is you can never be too prepared

Patrick

 

[oxfordshirestalker]

Is this not what Iam suggesting. When we started to learn to drive, our friends relations gave us hands on experience, and did not want any payment, in the absence of that, then we took driving lessons, so transpose this example to stalking, or indeed any other skill, that's what Iam advocating, clumsily, or otherwise. I don't suggest that you just turn up for an assessment saying I'm here where is the exam paper. My advice ethos is you can never be too prepared

Patrick

It may well be - I read your post and thought you were advocating more and more paid courses above real life experience (which I don’t). I may have got the wrong end of the stick though, sorry!

I thought I was very well prepared for my first solo gralloch. I’d watched a few experienced hands do it, I’d done my DSC1, watched plenty of videos etc. But the first time you’re there with the knife in your hand and you’re faced with a deer’s rear end, the courses and videos aren’t desperately helpful!

 

[baguio]

Imagine there were some kind of public forum where the world's largest collection of deer-stalkers gathered to discuss and share good practice? If such a thing existed, surely one would exploit that resource...?

Can you please post a link to it? I wouldn't mind joining!

 

[patrickt]

It may well be - I read your post and thought you were advocating more and more paid courses above real life experience (which I don’t). I may have got the wrong end of the stick though, sorry!

I thought I was very well prepared for my first solo gralloch. I’d watched a few experienced hands do it, I’d done my DSC1, watched plenty of videos etc. But the first time you’re there with the knife in your hand and you’re faced with a deer’s rear end, the courses and videos aren’t desperately helpful!

Relative courses/experience is....exactly what is needed. I have attended many courses both initially as a student then course assistant, during which we taught other like minded students on mainly a freshly shot Red Deer carcass how to gralloch, skin, carry out a full pathological examination of a beast, and all hands on experience, there is no substitute. In Northumberland we have some brilliant course providers who are truly hands on, and, always wiling to go that extra mile to assist students

I wholeheartedly commend those course providers, and, they are certainly worth travelling up country, spending a couple of days in their experienced presence, the cost is very reasonably for years of their Professional services, and I must say that I do not have any conflict of interest to declare

Patrick

 

[FISH BOY]

Curious to hear the logistics and see if the AW has to sit the candidate for the food hygiene assessment as part of the L2.