DMQ level 1 and 2 changes
- Thread starter Corvid
- Start date
Indeed.
It’s the very thought of only getting £25 for witnessing one stalk as opposed to £75 for witnessing three that has led me to cancel the order for the Ferrari.
Tough times call for tough measures!
Willie I was thinking more of those who those the whole stalking day or even those who do a level 2 weekend of stalks are getting paid for.Indeed.
It’s the very thought of only getting £25 for witnessing one stalk as opposed to £75 for witnessing three that has led me to cancel the order for the Ferrari.
Tough times call for tough measures!
baguio
Well-Known Member
And that will certainly never change!Usual ones complaining again.
teyhan1
Well-Known Member
Reminds me very much of when they started to play with the NSCC prior to becoming DSC.
For those of you that are too young we used have the National Stalkers Competance Certificate and the Advanced version. What they lacked was the DSC2.
IMO the whole system needs a good shake up with a professional educator on board to shape the system in to a NVQ style qualification.
Watch out though. They buggered a lot of NSCC cert holders in the last shake up, forcing them to go and spend more money. If they did it once............
For those of you that are too young we used have the National Stalkers Competance Certificate and the Advanced version. What they lacked was the DSC2.
IMO the whole system needs a good shake up with a professional educator on board to shape the system in to a NVQ style qualification.
Watch out though. They buggered a lot of NSCC cert holders in the last shake up, forcing them to go and spend more money. If they did it once............
sikamalc
Administrator
I do not charge for a Level 2 stalk. I only charge my daily rate, even though more time is put in to take a candidate out. Therefore it makes no difference to me. There will be a lot of more AW's leaving I feel, the whole system was started with good intentions, but was not thought through in my opinion. Level One is I feel a great grounding for people to start their stalking career. However to my knowledge nothing was allowed for disability within the Level One when first introduced.
We have a had a number of dyslexic and color blind people on the one course a year that I organise. As for Level 2, I am dismayed at some of the so called experts that we have running it. I well remember a third stalk I witnessed for a candidate. He shot a White Fallow doe within 20 minutes of leaving the bothy on the estate. I stood about 15ft from him while he took the shot.
No problem, all completed. When the portfolio was entered the assessor called me and questioned me about the shot and that I was not standing right next to him. Which you must be in range to see what they are doing, and about 15ft was near enough to see in my book. Needless to say I was not impressed, and the Assessor told me it was the verifier at Barony College who was kicking off about the stalk.
It turned out the Internal verifier was only just a few months in the position and prior to this was a TAX INSPECTOR!!
I was then asked to think of another deer that the candidate had shot in the past whilst my being present. This I might add made a whole mockery of the Level 2. The candidate passed, and rightly so as in my professional opinion he was certainly capable. This was with Barony College. At this point in time I was about to give up on being an AW, but decided to stay because I enjoy helping people out.
It appears to me, and please whoever reads this correct me if I am wrong, that the majority of Assessors and verifiers are not FULL time deer stalkers, and carry on the art on a recreational basis? Whether I decide to stay as an AW I dont know, I make nothing out of it at all, despite DMQ and others thinking we are raking it in. Dream on all of you.
We have a had a number of dyslexic and color blind people on the one course a year that I organise. As for Level 2, I am dismayed at some of the so called experts that we have running it. I well remember a third stalk I witnessed for a candidate. He shot a White Fallow doe within 20 minutes of leaving the bothy on the estate. I stood about 15ft from him while he took the shot.
No problem, all completed. When the portfolio was entered the assessor called me and questioned me about the shot and that I was not standing right next to him. Which you must be in range to see what they are doing, and about 15ft was near enough to see in my book. Needless to say I was not impressed, and the Assessor told me it was the verifier at Barony College who was kicking off about the stalk.
It turned out the Internal verifier was only just a few months in the position and prior to this was a TAX INSPECTOR!!
I was then asked to think of another deer that the candidate had shot in the past whilst my being present. This I might add made a whole mockery of the Level 2. The candidate passed, and rightly so as in my professional opinion he was certainly capable. This was with Barony College. At this point in time I was about to give up on being an AW, but decided to stay because I enjoy helping people out.
It appears to me, and please whoever reads this correct me if I am wrong, that the majority of Assessors and verifiers are not FULL time deer stalkers, and carry on the art on a recreational basis? Whether I decide to stay as an AW I dont know, I make nothing out of it at all, despite DMQ and others thinking we are raking it in. Dream on all of you.
show us on the doll where the naughty big boys from dmq touched you and we will get them in trouble
Reloader708
Well-Known Member
I think it shows the whole thing as the sham that it is! I heard early last year that the powers that rule us were thinking of streamlining the level 2 award; apparently to few were going onto level 2 after completing level 1.
It just appears like theres going to be two standards of the same award...perhaps all who completed the original version should have 2+ on their certificates and everything after should be a plain old 2...or something like that to differentiate.
It'll be interesting to see how some of the big boys like nature scot or the commission will take it, will they insist on a new L3 or just be glad theres some deer being flattened?
I suppose it all depends on where you're standing, I would imagine the majority of people who have achieved L2 will be recreational stalkers with no real need other than a sense of self achievement so however the award is managed had little bearing on the end result.
It just appears like theres going to be two standards of the same award...perhaps all who completed the original version should have 2+ on their certificates and everything after should be a plain old 2...or something like that to differentiate.
It'll be interesting to see how some of the big boys like nature scot or the commission will take it, will they insist on a new L3 or just be glad theres some deer being flattened?
I suppose it all depends on where you're standing, I would imagine the majority of people who have achieved L2 will be recreational stalkers with no real need other than a sense of self achievement so however the award is managed had little bearing on the end result.
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
As I understand it, the FLS were a driver for the watering down of level 2 because they want more people to be qualified.
I don’t see the issue with the new requirement really, if you can do 1 deer you can do 3 but I’m very bitter that they aren’t going to let people change into the new requirements without re registering.
I don’t see the issue with the new requirement really, if you can do 1 deer you can do 3 but I’m very bitter that they aren’t going to let people change into the new requirements without re registering.
Firefly
Well-Known Member
Just got the email better late than never DMQ. So If I read this right the DSC2 candidate now needs to stalk and process just one deer and he/she DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO LOCATE IT THEMSELVES !!!! .
I have long been an advocate of DMQ and have been a witness for a good few years now. It is with much regret that I feel I just don't want to be a part of this anymore.
I'm sickened.
I have long been an advocate of DMQ and have been a witness for a good few years now. It is with much regret that I feel I just don't want to be a part of this anymore.
I'm sickened.
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8x57
Distinguished Member
I haven't seen the new target that will be used but it's long been accepted that the kill zone on the existing target isn't quite correct. On top of that from what I have read on here they will also be introducing a second kill zone for the coup de grace head shots at the shortest range.
baguio
Well-Known Member
Why did you need the email early when this only comes in to play for those not yet registered?
Lets not forget that those who weren't very good at stalking and locating deer would eventually pass DSC2 anyway. It just took them more attempts to do so. They got exactly the same certificate as those who done it in a day though. Therefore I don't see what you're complaining about? It never was about how good you were at spotting deer.
baguio
Well-Known Member
Which might be interesting for those with 8X fixed mag scopes that will do everything that any other scope will do!
Andy - Fish
Well-Known Member
Dan - Do you know if this is the case if you've registered but not yet started doing anything yet - I'm registered but not yet had an AW out with me yet - Cheers
Firefly
Well-Known Member
Finding or spotting a deer is actually quite an important skill in a stalker. I just can't see how someone can be signed off if they haven't proved they can spot or find deer themselves .
Firefly
Well-Known Member
I'm speaking from the perspective of AW's. It was, IMHO a reasonable standard to achieve. 3, not to few, not to many but at least a reasonable standard.
It would of been nice for AW's to hear of these changes before we read it elsewhere. Common courtesy ? But hey they were kind enough to include our resignation forms with the documentation so that saves a step
This is why I think it looks like a Level 1+, and will really only show that can apply in practice what you have been taught in theory during Level 1.Finding or spotting a deer is actually quite an important skill in a stalker. I just can't see how someone can be signed off if they haven't proved they can spot or find deer themselves .
Level 2 used to look like a better reflection of the fact that someone could stalk a deer and meet certain standard.
I can see from certain perspectives this may be more useful, as what people will be keen to know is that you are a safe stalker who can maintain necessary standards. Whether you are a good stalker will be of less of a concern to them.
This is where my suspicion creeps in. This starts to look like the driving test with 'theory' and 'knowledge' exams. If Level 2 becomes relatively quick and easy to get, and only shows that you can apply Level 1, I can see lots of forces, government agencies thinking it ought to become standard.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the DSC system, it's just regrettable that what ought just to be an opportunity for those who wish to obtain a qualification is rapidly becoming a required test by the back door and those who have the experience and no need to 'prove themselves' get forced to either take tests or go to the back of the queue. I say that as someone who does not have anything like the experience of some on here but who can understand why they are aggrieved by 'newbies' who take a couple of tests and think they're 'it'.
If that's what DMQ are getting at, then they could at least articulate it as being so.
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