UK REACH lead ammunition review announced

Its really interesting - "lead" is such an emotive issue, and those that would oppose fieldsports know it. In the current climate attacking its use is a relatively easy win for them, like rolling stones downhill. But some might legitimately argue that acting against lead ammunition in respect of actual risk to human health needs to be put in context, before moving away from what sportsmen have known to be the cheapest, most effective means to despatch game for over 200 years.

In 2004, the Norwegian government banned the use of lead shot, only to overturn the ban in 2015, citing that the extreme warnings from the lead-ban lobby at the time of the ban were both exaggerated and untrustworthy. (The Norwegian ban remains, though, over wetlands, which was in place before the general ban was introduced and overturned.)

In 2019, 17.1m people were admitted to hospital in England (NHS data). On average over the last 10 years, some 20 people have been admitted to hospital annually with lead poisoning, including those working in the smelting industry ( H of Commons library). That is to say 0.0001% of hospitalisations in England, or one person in every 3,250,000 of the UK population (assuming a UK population of 65m). A person is 1.5 times more likely to be struck by lightning in the UK (average 32 people per annum) than suffer lead poisoning. There is not one single hospitalisation case directly linked either to the ingestion of lead shot or game meat shot using lead.

The regulation-hungry EU REACH has been willingly lured down the lead ammunition ban path, initially against the will of, incidentally, the Czechs who with a strong hunting ethos, initially opposed the move by EU REACH, before being brought into line by the Commission, doubtless with a another political carrot or stick elsewhere. The question is whether the UK also falls into the same trap of unnecessary over regulation. Wasn't that one of the reasons why the UK chose to leave the EU - to get away from excessive, high-cost, low benefit bureaucracy? The relative vaccine responses that we are seeing now might indicate that getting out from unnecessary regulation and control is a good thing. As I say, while lead poisoning is clearly a highly emotive issue, I would have thought Government time ought be focussed on more pressing and more important health issues - alcoholism accounts for c.8,500 hospitalisations each year. But wait..banning alcohol..that wouldn't be unpopular and cost votes would it....?
 
OFF - this topic has been done to death. There is lots of evidence that lead is generally harmful - and its well understood.

And there plenty if good non toxic options now available that work. And there are many more in the pipeline.

And all the above is irrelevant - more and more who are buying game meat want certainty that it doesn’t contain lead. So those who are selling into the food industry will have to use what market forces dictate. If you want to sell your venison in the future use non toxic.
 
No, but no one one else will get to buy one at that price (yours potentially excepted) so your purchase, not your gun, is a one off. But you knew that was what I meant and that it was as correct, hence your facetious comment.
I found it on guntrader and bought it off a bloke in Cambridge. I don't think it was a one off at all.
 
It looks like the issue has been kicked into the political long grass, two years all but takes us up to the next General Election. That said it looks like lead ammo is on the way out anyway, pity that something ballistically superior hasn't been found for shotgun shot, steel only gets a look in because its cheap.
If we are talking improved ballistic performance in shotguns it certainly has been found , TSS shot ! Suitable for shooting foreshore geese using a 410 even , cost is the bug in the trifle mind .
I practically shooting lead shot a couple of years ago personally I am very familiar with steel as a keen wildfowler and found I killed better with steel than I did with lead . Imo using the best factory steel shells or home loaded the only difference is you just don't get lucky with a couple a fliers connecting with a bird you where not on . It simply doesn't produce those wild fliers .
If you go shooting pheasant with fast hp steel in a 3 or 4 that you might use for duck or a closer goose say shooting tide , you will find a good proportion of your pheasant inedible through the damage .
Lesser Black back gulls must be tge toughest birds I have ever shot , the things will even hide and have a go at charging you on the attack , bigger than many think when that happens to you 😉 i found number 3 steel 36 gram mammoth steel from game bore excellent! Just don't send the dog and take the gun when your clearing the slain 😂
The thing is although we do need a bio wad , we need greater availability of steel shells first . You can collect the wads when they are seen just like the cases . Doing the two at the same time in a hurry is more likely to create issues
We also now have tge proof houses willing to prove what manynof us have known for a long time older guns especially the magnums are often just fine with even hp steel . I actually know of one aya 3" magnum being changed to 3 1/2" meeting thier materially changed rule and passing steel proof in the days when your couldn't get a std none steel proofed gun upgraded
 
If we are talking improved ballistic performance in shotguns it certainly has been found , TSS shot ! Suitable for shooting foreshore geese using a 410 even , cost is the bug in the trifle mind .
I practically shooting lead shot a couple of years ago personally I am very familiar with steel as a keen wildfowler and found I killed better with steel than I did with lead . Imo using the best factory steel shells or home loaded the only difference is you just don't get lucky with a couple a fliers connecting with a bird you where not on . It simply doesn't produce those wild fliers .
If you go shooting pheasant with fast hp steel in a 3 or 4 that you might use for duck or a closer goose say shooting tide , you will find a good proportion of your pheasant inedible through the damage .
Lesser Black back gulls must be tge toughest birds I have ever shot , the things will even hide and have a go at charging you on the attack , bigger than many think when that happens to you 😉 i found number 3 steel 36 gram mammoth steel from game bore excellent! Just don't send the dog and take the gun when your clearing the slain 😂
The thing is although we do need a bio wad , we need greater availability of steel shells first . You can collect the wads when they are seen just like the cases . Doing the two at the same time in a hurry is more likely to create issues
We also now have tge proof houses willing to prove what manynof us have known for a long time older guns especially the magnums are often just fine with even hp steel . I actually know of one aya 3" magnum being changed to 3 1/2" meeting thier materially changed rule and passing steel proof in the days when your couldn't get a std none steel proofed gun upgraded
That's very informative. I'm more than happy to use Barnes TTSX in my rifle, as for steel shot again happy to use in my Yildiz O/U multichoke, however not a chance of using it my AYA no.2, Id rather use Bismuth instead.
Looking to other matters if the Government is serious about lead alternatives and a major constraint is lack of manufacturing capacity might it not be a good idea if UK based ammunition makers could be given some public funding to set up the required production facilities?
 
Its really interesting - "lead" is such an emotive issue, and those that would oppose fieldsports know it. In the current climate attacking its use is a relatively easy win for them, like rolling stones downhill. But some might legitimately argue that acting against lead ammunition in respect of actual risk to human health needs to be put in context, before moving away from what sportsmen have known to be the cheapest, most effective means to despatch game for over 200 years.

In 2004, the Norwegian government banned the use of lead shot, only to overturn the ban in 2015, citing that the extreme warnings from the lead-ban lobby at the time of the ban were both exaggerated and untrustworthy. (The Norwegian ban remains, though, over wetlands, which was in place before the general ban was introduced and overturned.)

In 2019, 17.1m people were admitted to hospital in England (NHS data). On average over the last 10 years, some 20 people have been admitted to hospital annually with lead poisoning, including those working in the smelting industry ( H of Commons library). That is to say 0.0001% of hospitalisations in England, or one person in every 3,250,000 of the UK population (assuming a UK population of 65m). A person is 1.5 times more likely to be struck by lightning in the UK (average 32 people per annum) than suffer lead poisoning. There is not one single hospitalisation case directly linked either to the ingestion of lead shot or game meat shot using lead.

The regulation-hungry EU REACH has been willingly lured down the lead ammunition ban path, initially against the will of, incidentally, the Czechs who with a strong hunting ethos, initially opposed the move by EU REACH, before being brought into line by the Commission, doubtless with a another political carrot or stick elsewhere. The question is whether the UK also falls into the same trap of unnecessary over regulation. Wasn't that one of the reasons why the UK chose to leave the EU - to get away from excessive, high-cost, low benefit bureaucracy? The relative vaccine responses that we are seeing now might indicate that getting out from unnecessary regulation and control is a good thing. As I say, while lead poisoning is clearly a highly emotive issue, I would have thought Government time ought be focussed on more pressing and more important health issues - alcoholism accounts for c.8,500 hospitalisations each year. But wait..banning alcohol..that wouldn't be unpopular and cost votes would it....?
Really well said. I have trouble seeing through the red mist of disbelief to comment as you have - bravo 👏
 
Looking to other matters if the Government is serious about lead alternatives and a major constraint is lack of manufacturing capacity might it not be a good idea if UK based ammunition makers could be given some public funding to set up the required production facilities?

Public money for shooting, that would be a first or a miracle.

As for setting up production facilities, nice idea however its a volume game and without selling to the rest of the world I doubt they could compete with the current manufactures.
Same reason we lost are last powder manufacture, it was cheaper to buy it in from the EU than make it in the U.K.

But never say never I guess.

Bioamo was set up with a big EU grant as was the R&D funding for the Spanish firm making the biodegradable wads
Eley are using.
 
Public money for shooting, that would be a first or a miracle.

As for setting up production facilities, nice idea however its a volume game and without selling to the rest of the world I doubt they could compete with the current manufactures.
Same reason we lost are last powder manufacture, it was cheaper to buy it in from the EU than make it in the U.K.

But never say never I guess.

Bioamo was set up with a big EU grant as was the R&D funding for the Spanish firm making the biodegradable wads
Eley are using.
There will be a big market for non-toxic ammo across the EU when lead is banned there, why shouldn't the UK fulfil that demand?
 
There will be a big market for non-toxic ammo across the EU when lead is banned there, why shouldn't the UK fulfil that demand?
Can you honestly see the EU protectionism let that happen.
They set up with EU funding various factories that took UK work while we were a member. They will not be bothered about doing it even more openly now we are not.
 
On a slightly different tack, if a deer is neck shot with a lead based bullet and the head/legs are removed on gralloching how is the game dealer to know that lead was used - is it worth stocking up the number of "possessed" rounds in lead (or even increasing that number on a variation)? - if home loading, can you not just load the number of rounds you are entitled to possess and keep any number of lead bullets ("heads" but don't start me on the correct description of "heads") ready to reload. - Not that I am ever suggesting you should misinform your game dealer of course !
How do you see that working?
I tip toe through the trees with a lead bullet up the spout but if a chest shot is offered I swop over to the non lead?
Not very practical.
I‘ d also be fairly sure that game dealers will scan the carcasses and use the tags to trace them back to the supplier, that’s how I’d do it anyway, if there was lead in it then no payment and come and dispose of it or we’ll have to charge you for that too.
 
How do you see that working?
I tip toe through the trees with a lead bullet up the spout but if a chest shot is offered I swop over to the non lead?
Not very practical.
I‘ d also be fairly sure that game dealers will scan the carcasses and use the tags to trace them back to the supplier, that’s how I’d do it anyway, if there was lead in it then no payment and come and dispose of it or we’ll have to charge you for that too.
I don't think any of us should be trying to think of ways to break whatever rules the morons invent. Rules are rules, and the UK hunting and shooting community is the most law-abiding section of our society. Let's fight for the least-sh1t outcome possible, but, whatever that outcome - whether we like it or not - we need to abide by its terms.
 
I don't think any of us should be trying to think of ways to break whatever rules the morons invent. Rules are rules, and the UK hunting and shooting community is the most law-abiding section of our society. Let's fight for the least-sh1t outcome possible, but, whatever that outcome - whether we like it or not - we need to abide by its terms.
On that we agree.
Non compliance with the rules will lose us whatever concessions or exemptions we negotiate.
 
Here is an interesting table of Weights of metals per pound per cubic foot and the issue of replacing lead with a pound for pound replacement.
I'm sure that with more R&D there will be a suitable if not a more effective replacement to lead..

At the moment we are at the transition stage and nothing is working as we would like it to.

Aluminum 168.48
Antimony 419.99
Beryllium 113.70
Bismuth 611.00
Brass (Approx.)535.68
Bronze, Alum. 481.00
Bronze (Approx.) 541.00
Cadmium 540.86
Chromium 428.00
Cobalt 552.96
Copper 559.87
Gold 1206.83
Gun Metal (Aver.) 544.00
Iridium 1396.00
Iron 491.09
Iron,Cast Grey 442.00
Iron,Wrought 480.00
Iron,Slag 172.00
Lead 707.96
Magnesium 108.51
Manganese 463.10
Mercury 849.00
Molybdenum 637.63
Monel Metal 556.00
Nickel 555.72
Osmium 1402.00
Palladium 712.00
Platinum 1339.20
Rhodium 755.00
Ruthenium 765.00
Silver 654.91
Stainless Steel (18-8) 494.21
Steel, Cast/Rolled 490.00
Tin 455.67
Titanium 283.39
Tungsten 1204.41
Vanadium 374.97
Zinc 445.30.



Lead is dead as far as i'm concerned, like many of you I was vehemently opposed to copper and refused to change.Having been dragged kicking and screaming into the "copper" age, I really don't know what all the fuss is about, yes its not ideal but with demand will come more R&D and the effectiveness will improve and hopefully the cost.
 
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