UK REACH lead ammunition review announced
- Thread starter Conor O'Gorman
- Start date
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
For years BASC sold the no science no change mantra for those opposed to the use of lead shot.
Then they led a number of other organisations in a U turn on that statement.
My question along with many others is. Where is the peer reviewed data that proves all the claims against lead?
Where are all the dead wildfowl?
It would appear that the move to non lead is political rather than anything else.
I am happy to be proven wrong, but I don’t think I will hold my breath.
The way the whole thing was handled is appalling, as a member of BASC I along with many others were treated like small children. Rather than actually asking us all what we wanted.
I was under the impression that they worked for us (the members) rather than just doing as they pleased without prior consultation.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Are you still a member of BASC?
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
Yes, I feel that I can at least get my opinion across as a member. They will not listen to non members. Especially when they choose to act without the members consent on a matter this important.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
If they choose to act without members' consent, how is being a member advantageous? Other than, of course, having more right than non-members to be outraged each time they betray you?
This debate goes on and on. Just checked my water pipes, copper in house, lead from mains through garden. Now with the s..t they put in our water what reaction between lead and chemicals. As a kid I sucked lead soldiers covered in lead based paint. Another thought anybody over 55 will have eaten ham or bacon in their youth. Sorry to tell you but it was mainly salted in a lead salting trough and the water in the meat formed liquid, which must have absorbed some lead.
Another lovely thought even BASC staff and Vegans must eat bread. Wheat is sprayed at least eight times during growth with chemicals to kill all sorts of things, and absorbed by the plants, even the ground is sprayed to annihilate weeds. All farmed meat generally has a diet of chemicals and antibiotics.
Now you anti lead lot try and tell me how bad lead is for me in the meat I shoot. Just two words for our organisations, game dealers and supermarkets that want leadfree shot meat. The second word is off. Come back Jimbo you are so right.
Another lovely thought even BASC staff and Vegans must eat bread. Wheat is sprayed at least eight times during growth with chemicals to kill all sorts of things, and absorbed by the plants, even the ground is sprayed to annihilate weeds. All farmed meat generally has a diet of chemicals and antibiotics.
Now you anti lead lot try and tell me how bad lead is for me in the meat I shoot. Just two words for our organisations, game dealers and supermarkets that want leadfree shot meat. The second word is off. Come back Jimbo you are so right.
My BASC membership went because of the their stance on lead. It is just not simply a move to non-lead, as that harms target shooting for no benefit and such as the use of .22 subsonic. The subject is complex and BASC took the easy route. Yes steel shot can be an alternative for most shotgunning, but it is not for all shooting and such as BASC pay lip service to others affected. Smacks of the pistol ban and foxhunting, it's not my bag so throw them under the wheels.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Ah, it looks like I've been the victim of fake news then! Waitrose to phase out lead-shot game across its estates
Remember you are signing a declaration that the carcass is fit to enter the food chain and all representations made are true...
Not a good look to be telling porkies pies.
From an economic perspective, it will take time for an adjustment but I suspect necessity will drive some innovation and in time all things will normalise.
If the Internet existed when they started putting copper jackets on bullets there would have been 10 pages of similar debate.
Just read some of it and it looks to me like they are not independant in their views and want to mirror the EU lead moments regardless of what shooters think. It looks like they are aiming for a complete ban of lead regardless of hunting or target. Oh dear
I would be quite happy for anything coming out of the business end of my shotgun that had the performance qualities of lead but isn't lead. In no way have I any affinity with lead. Sadly, nothing does and anything that comes near costs a small fortune. Steel is okay at closer ranges, but for the foreseeable future, longer range shots will either have to be simply ignored or you are going to be having a lot of pricked birds.
I can only hope that with imminent bans on lead on the horizon in most places, a wonder product will appear to save the day. What's the chance of that?
I can only hope that with imminent bans on lead on the horizon in most places, a wonder product will appear to save the day. What's the chance of that?
Woodenbeam
Well-Known Member
OMG - John Swift certainly has a bullet up his ass with regard to this - lead no doubt. The man seems to be on a mission
What did someone do to fire this man up?So this is a group that advise government..........you read their minutes and it’s unbelievable the way they act. Archiving material which doesn’t sit well so access isn’t so easy, lead levels in Peruvian Amerindians in the Amazon and the disappointment that “JS noted there had been numerous recent publications on the impact of lead poisoning on raptors and scavengers. However, there had been relatively little published evidence from the UK. A discussion followed on data from the UK, specifically on Golden Eagles in Scotland. A discussion followed on the topic.” We need more Golden Eagles to die of lead poisoning to back up our crusade!
The minutes show how organised this lot are, letters to all and everyone regarding their cause irrelevant to the general consensus of the great unwashed that there isn’t an true issue.
I’ve spouted off a bit on this thread but don’t get me wrong. The banning of lead shot over wetlands I understand, common sense. BUT this is like banning the use of round wheels on vehicles - it just doesn’t make sense which is what makes my blood boil.
Lead does the job really well and although a risk it’s one the individual should be able to make not have something enforced on them from a numpty on a mission.
It's 2021, you don't need facts or consensus to bring about change, you need victims, outrage and a sense of injustice.OMG - John Swift certainly has a bullet up his ass with regard to this - lead no doubt. The man seems to be on a mission
So this is a group that advise government..........you read their minutes and it’s unbelievable the way they act. Archiving material which doesn’t sit well so access isn’t so easy, lead levels in Peruvian Amerindians in the Amazon and the disappointment that “JS noted there had been numerous recent publications on the impact of lead poisoning on raptors and scavengers. However, there had been relatively little published evidence from the UK. A discussion followed on data from the UK, specifically on Golden Eagles in Scotland. A discussion followed on the topic.” We need more Golden Eagles to die of lead poisoning to back up our crusade!
The minutes show how organised this lot are, letters to all and everyone regarding their cause irrelevant to the general consensus of the great unwashed that there isn’t an true issue.
I’ve spouted off a bit on this thread but don’t get me wrong. The banning of lead shot over wetlands I understand, common sense. BUT this is like banning the use of round wheels on vehicles - it just doesn’t make sense which is what makes my blood boil.
Lead does the job really well and although a risk it’s one the individual should be able to make not have something enforced on them from a numpty on a mission.
Looking at the attendees it's reassuring to see that shooting's interests are being looked after so well. I'm sure the strong representation from BASC, CA, BDS, GTA are putting forward a balanced view of the issue.....oh, wait a second, none of them bothered to attend.
Indeed I did spot that also, I thought the LAG fell apart in disarray and disorder.
Read their final report and they make a lot of assumptions with no evidence to support it like;
“Does it cause harm to wildlife?
Yes, it certainly kills some birds. Numbers are hard to be certain about but almost certainly at least tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands annually in UK.”
So numbers are hard to be certain about, almost certainly, so some doubt but let’s just guess as nobody really knows, and large numbers are good for the cause of banning lead. So hundreds of thousands it is then.
What utter rubbish and very poor science.
Woodenbeam
Well-Known Member
I think from memory they resigned in protest at the biased, non fact based conclusions the group put forward to government/interested parties.
That said all well & good resigning but the anti lead brigade and BASC are pretty much one & the same. Possibly due to commercial shoots having to be seen to do the right thing to justify their continued existence which is where all this stems from.
How do you stop thousands of birds being reared, released & shot? Promote the toxic deadly substance used to kill’em. Trouble is the toxic effect of this campaign had a far greater effect than any sab could have imagined. They’re now just sitting back & give the occasional prod while the shooting community implodes trying to safeguard their own particular aspect of past time whether that be shotguns/rifles/pleasure/pest control etc etc.
All for an extrapolated risk...........
Ade8mm
Well-Known Member
And how many millions of bird do domestic cats kill each year?
I sorry if forgot that's different. Cwis says that's natural (even though the damn things are fed by their owners) Its about as daft as claiming the re-introduction of red kites has been a success with no mention of the feeding stations that support the burgeoning numbers
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