Beavers - Rewilding

[alberta boy]

If you think roe bucks can batter each other they have nothing on the sustained aggression of a beaver. I reckon I nailed the first beaver in England for over 400 years (coup de grâce). They might look cute and cuddly to some but their fighting gear is formidable. Keep well back.

They're far from helpless . An adult can hit 50 + pounds in weight and are extremely strong , they are more than capable of killing a dog , which does happen from time to time . They're actually a distinct threat to a dog while it's swimming . I've known a few people who had dogs drowned by Beavers over the years , it's not a common occurrence , but it does happen . We'll see how popular they are in the UK after they take fluffy for the final plunge a few times . They are a truly amazing animal , they actually create new ecosystems where ever they go . In the UK , where everything is tightly controlled , monitored and managed , they may be more than most can accept if left unmanaged . Take a look at what happened in Tierra del Fuego .

AB

 

[Heym SR20]

Trouble with the UK is that everybody wants nature completely under control, and only wants what meets their particular criteria. Only reason the Scottish Highlands were cleared of trees, people, animals etc was a few landowners wanting to cash in on wool from sheep. Didn’t last that long before the same landlords found Australia etc could satisfy the demand for wool far more cheaply.

Nowadays in more enlightened times, we in the modern western world should be happy at living alongside nature. And I have no issue with reintroduction of once native species - beavers, wild boar, lynx etc. They all have their place in the ecosystem.

But we haven’t yet learnt that we do need to manage wildlife, because sadly there is not enough space for us all. I have no issue with this. After all timber, crops, cattle, sheep were all wild once.

Beavers are very useful at the top end of river systems, building lots of little dams that slow down runoff, filter the water and create spawing beds for fish. But a bloody nuisance down in the lower reaches next to major agriculture.

What our powers that be, press etc is that we can manage species for the benefit of the whole species. Management includes trapping, culling etc of problem animals or birds, or simply keeping numbers to a good balance level. Take Badgers - these were pretty much extinct 30 odd years ago. They are now very common. When was the last time you saw a hedgehog?


Before we starting shouting about beavers, we can’t even all agree on deer. Government wants deer numbers at a very low level. Plenty of SD members are involved in large culls on a professional basis. But these have been so effective that deer numbers have in many areas been dramatically reduced to a level where recreational hunting is almost non viable - especially if money is having to change hands.

What we need is some joined up thinking and communication amongst all parties. Take forestry and deer for example. Deer are seen as a pest so must be shot as quickly as possible. Call in contractors - deer eliminated, problem sorted. Forest now needs 20 to 30 years before any sort of income from wood. Now if only they had some sort of sustainable source of income????

 

[A Guy Out West]

Beaver trapping used to be quite a profitable past time in the US, up until about 1980. Beaver we’re trapped for their fur in just about all locals that held them, they were held in check in large part. Then the anti fur people got a stronghold and the price of beaver along with other fur fell through the floor. The beaver population exploded and created a big mess in populated areas but in wilderness areas, the perfect storm for habitat was created. All fur-bearers, ducks , other birds, predators, and most if not all fish species benefited. The beaver dams created habitat that provided deep water, protection from freeze outs, nesting habitat, etc.. In areas close to humans, not so much. I
Made a post about this last December, I think. I live in the beaver state and I see both the good they do and the bad. I don’t think it’s a good idea to rewild them in areas that have been taken over by humans. The greens will never permit the proper management of them.

 

[Scandially]

North American beavers are present in Scottish rivers, they were never meant to be but it seems aome organisation took them. Maybe on a BOGOF deal?

 

[User00025]

Take badgers - these were pretty much extinct 30 odd years ago. They are now very common. When was the last time you saw a hedgehog?

Funnily enough exactly 30 years ago my dentist told me that and there were only a thousand left. Two evenings later having shown him 40 occupied setts with from four to fifty holes in the North Cotswolds, he agreed with me there were more than the supposed one thousand badgers in England. They have never been in danger of extinction. I saw my hedgehog female and young last night but we have a garden of shrubs and dense flower beds as have most cottages here and badgers don't generally visit the village.

 

[JTO]

They introduced them here in Devon on the River Otter, they are always known as “The Otter Beaver”. Cannot wait for them to be introduced on the Itchen!

Or the Test!

 

[JTO]

Currently more and more people are deciding they like an environment with beavers in it, and all that entails.

Townees will always outnumber farmers!

 

[Mungo]

North American beavers are present in Scottish rivers, they were never meant to be but it seems aome organisation took them. Maybe on a BOGOF deal?

Are they indeed?

I very much doubt it.

 

[Heym SR20]

Townees will always outnumber farmers!

And the trouble with BREXIT is that previously under the EU, Brussels made policy in determining how rural grants etc would be distributed and took into account overall needs of rural areas and very mindful of the longterm impacts etc etc. and also limited voice of the rural population.

Now post BREXIT, it is Westminster and devolved governments that set policy, award money /grants etc. Does Boris care about rural affairs. No. All he cares about is votes and keeping his cronies happy. And giving money to rural areas is low on the list of priorities. I think post BREXIT there will be very little money to actually support conservation, bio diversity etc etc. There will be lots of lip service and headline grabbing announcements, but bugger all will actually happen.

Land and farming will become much more concentrated into ever larger more efficient operations, employing robots and even fewer people and owned by financial investors who are totally divorced from actual rural stewardship. Gone will be the emotional ties to the land - that wood is left alone because that’s where great great aunt Jemima’s ashes are scattered etc.

 

[JTO]

Beaver trapping used to be quite a profitable past time in the US, up until about 1980. Beaver we’re trapped for their fur in just about all locals that held them, they were held in check in large part. Then the anti fur people got a stronghold and the price of beaver along with other fur fell through the floor. The beaver population exploded and created a big mess in populated areas but in wilderness areas, the perfect storm for habitat was created. All fur-bearers, ducks , other birds, predators, and most if not all fish species benefited. The beaver dams created habitat that provided deep water, protection from freeze outs, nesting habitat, etc.. In areas close to humans, not so much. I
Made a post about this last December, I think. I live in the beaver state and I see both the good they do and the bad. I don’t think it’s a good idea to rewild them in areas that have been taken over by humans. The greens will never permit the proper management of them.

Home - F&T Fur Harvester's Trading Post

www.fntpost.com

 

[Scandially]

Are they indeed?

I very much doubt it.

Your doubts can be eliminated.

 

[Dunwaters]

Anyone tried cooking them. I've heard Beaver tastes great?

I tried beaver schnapps once…..
Once was enough.

 

[Mungo]

Your doubts can be eliminated.

Enlighten me…

 

[Scandially]

River Tay prior to ban had several examined and confirmed.

 

[Mungo]

River Tay prior to ban had several examined and confirmed.

Really?

Can you point me to any documents to that effect?

Certainly all the SNH/Nature Scot people I've spoken to going back to 2011 have always maintained they were Eurasian - even back when they were more keen to get rid of them than to keep them. Paul Ramsay always insists that they're Eurasian, but obviously he isn't entirely unbiased!

 

[Scandially]

Is that the same SNH people that sit behind computers and never actually speak to river keepers and land owners?
The ghillie on my favourite beat has accounted for at least 200 and some were confirmed as North American. Easily identified by their size and weight.

 

[NullMac]

Latvians think we are all mad.

Our mates have a quota of beaver they have to whack before they are allowed to hunt boar or deer.

If we want to plant 300m trees to save the country/world then they will soon be on the species list.

 

[NullMac]

Anyone tried cooking them. I've heard Beaver tastes great?

Yes the Latvians brought some tinned Beaver tail. It was ok, wasn't raving about it.

 

[Mungo]

Is that the same SNH people that sit behind computers and never actually speak to river keepers and land owners?
The ghillie on my favourite beat has accounted for at least 200 and some were confirmed as North American. Easily identified by their size and weight.

No.

It would be the people who do the genetic testing.

Size and weight tell you nothing - the morphological differences are so small (on the order of 2-3% difference in mean weight) that you need a large sample and someone who knows both species well to say with any certainty which one you're dealing with. There's no way anyone (even anyone calling themselves and expert) could reliably tell you which one you were holding if you presented a single dead one to them. Genetics, on the other hand, tells you with great certainty!

But there is a pronounced tendency for people to call any large one they shoot an American one...

 

[Scandially]

OK...i bow to your superior knowledge. I think once you have shot 200 or so the differences stand out.