Nature is cruel.

[the_greenman]

There is no cruelty in nature. Only in our perceptions of what nature is. We are, afterall, the masters of cruelty, whether to other animals or to ourselves.

 

[Morkai]

Look at Nature Is Metal on Instagram, animals meeting their fate in hard ways.

Not always nice to see but something I don't think people should be sheltered from.

 

[bogtrotter]

I think using the word "play" falls into the same category as "cruelty"
I simply don't think you can attribute human concepts such as "play" to an animal
The biggest thing the antis have going for them is their ability to anthrpomorphise animal behaviour and appearances to make people think that blood sports should be banned
We shouldn't fall into the same trap - although that can be hard with a well loved pet animal

Cheers

Bruce

Never seen a Roe Doe play with her kids? Dogs will play together well mine do

I even had the privilege to,watch a Roe kid and a hare play together watched them for a full twenty minutes minutes .most definitely play.
As far as animal intelligence well science is getting a better understanding of that
Some animals are more intelligent than others Orca and Dolphins are known to be as intelligent as humans maybe more
so but that does not sit well with man
Dogs are thought to be able to reason as well as 5 year old child
Crows are the smartest of the birds the Raven being the smartest of the crow family intelligence about the same as a seven year old child, doubt it? What about Ravens leading stalkers to deer on the hill that suggests the ability to reason
rather than instinct.
Or the Chimp in America that has been taught sign language its not gking to be writting a novel anytime soon but it has
learned enough to convey what it wants.
Maybe we will need to rethink our ideas of animal intelligence.

 

[steve sxs]

Never seen a Roe Doe play with her kids? Dogs will play together well mine do

I even had the privilege to,watch a Roe kid and a hare play together watched them for a full twenty minutes minutes .most definitely play.
As far as animal intelligence well science is getting a better understanding of that
Some animals are more intelligent than others Orca and Dolphins are known to be as intelligent as humans maybe more
so but that does not sit well with man
Dogs are thought to be able to reason as well as 5 year old child
Crows are the smartest of the birds the Raven being the smartest of the crow family intelligence about the same as a seven year old child, doubt it? What about Ravens leading stalkers to deer on the hill that suggests the ability to reason
rather than instinct.
Or the Chimp in America that has been taught sign language its not gking to be writting a novel anytime soon but it has
learned enough to convey what it wants.
Maybe we will need to rethink our ideas of animal intelligence.

IMHO you are misreading intelligence for searching for food, all of the above can be linked with this (self preservation)

 

[User00036]

Never seen a Roe Doe play with her kids? Dogs will play together well mine do

I even had the privilege to,watch a Roe kid and a hare play together watched them for a full twenty minutes minutes .most definitely play.
As far as animal intelligence well science is getting a better understanding of that
Some animals are more intelligent than others Orca and Dolphins are known to be as intelligent as humans maybe more
so but that does not sit well with man
Dogs are thought to be able to reason as well as 5 year old child
Crows are the smartest of the birds the Raven being the smartest of the crow family intelligence about the same as a seven year old child, doubt it? What about Ravens leading stalkers to deer on the hill that suggests the ability to reason
rather than instinct.
Or the Chimp in America that has been taught sign language its not gking to be writting a novel anytime soon but it has
learned enough to convey what it wants.
Maybe we will need to rethink our ideas of animal intelligence.

Pigs are way more intelligent than chimps, they studied the intelligence of both at some research thingy, & rigged up a machine with a screen, goalposts ball & a feed hopper as a reward,, like a primitive space invader machine. The chimps spent ages trying to work it, & seemed to get there by luck more than judgement. The pigs once they got it, did it time & time again in seconds. I once saw a sow that was due to farrow in the old stables, go round the walls with fresh straw in her mouth, & wipe the walls down! I gave up keeping pigs after this, ever looked a pig in the eye? there're a bit too human for my liking, the only other smooth skinned animal, & we don't use chimp organs for transplants, but we have used pigs, we used to feed them the wine slops out of dustbins, & boy do they like getting drunk. Not much sign language after that.

 

[foxdropper]

Seen a few pigs in my time but never been intelligent

 

[bogtrotter]

IMHO you are misreading intelligence for searching for food, all of the above can be linked with this (self preservation)

I'm afraid it can't ,yes a Raven signaling to a man with a rifle results in food for the Raven but it takes reasoning to work that out they don't tend to signal in the same way to hill walkers.
A Roe kid and a hare playing chase together might not signify a huge IQ but it does show that they got pleasure in playing together especially unusual as it concerned
to different species nothing about food or self preservation just the joy of play.

 

[foxdropper]

With you BT .Seen many acts of play not associated with food or courtship .

 

[bogtrotter]

Pigs are way more intelligent than chimps, they studied the intelligence of both at some research thingy, & rigged up a machine with a screen, goalposts ball & a feed hopper as a reward,, like a primitive space invader machine. The chimps spent ages trying to work it, & seemed to get there by luck more than judgement. The pigs once they got it, did it time & time again in seconds. I once saw a sow that was due to farrow in the old stables, go round the walls with fresh straw in her mouth, & wipe the walls down! I gave up keeping pigs after this, ever looked a pig in the eye? there're a bit too human for my liking, the only other smooth skinned animal, & we don't use chimp organs for transplants, but we have used pigs, we used to feed them the wine slops out of dustbins, & boy do they like getting drunk. Not much sign language after that.

Yes I saw that on TV sometime ago had forgotten about it until you reminded me, certainly makes one think.

 

[Tazz]

The sooner adults stop anthropomorphisising the better really.

Yes that, ( I am looking it up now but sounds impressive)

 

[ofbiro]

I see what you are getting at but having observed cats playing with prey before killing them and also killer whales doing the same with dead seals I wonder if there is an element of cruelty.

regards,
Gixer

I suspect that the "play with the prey" is a diagnostic method to check the health of a potential meal.