TRAVELLING ABROAD - the document saga -

[Leec6.5]

Back when I originally raised this in February i spoke with the BASC. BASC thought no requirement for export licence. They in turn spoke with the government contacts and came back to me saying that yes you do need an Export License to take a firearm to the EU.

Clearly sense seems to have prevailed. However I have just checked the government website again. It was last updated on 31 Dec 2020.

Under the exceptions to the requirements for an Export Licence the use of an FAC or SC only applies to destinations outside the EU. For the EU, we no longer have the EFP, therefore the government site still implies you need an Export Permit. Just because a secretary of state says something, in law, it means diddly squat unless the act been changed, or the secretary of state has powers to change procedures.

Please can the OP point this out to his own MP, so that the guidance follows what the law and ministers actually say.
View attachment 213447

Back to square one then

 

[TonyC]

Disagree, I will trust the Ministers letter, I cannot believe that he will give written advice which goes against the law. We will see in the Autumn when hopefully we start hunting abroad again. Remember these are personal firearms carried by the owner, trade journeys may be totally different.

 

[palmer_mike]

Disagree, I will trust the Ministers letter, I cannot believe that he will give written advice which goes against the law. We will see in the Autumn when hopefully we start hunting abroad again. Remember these are personal firearms carried by the owner, trade journeys may be totally different.

I agree with your assessment TC

 

[Heym SR20]

Disagree, I will trust the Ministers letter, I cannot believe that he will give written advice which goes against the law. We will see in the Autumn when hopefully we start hunting abroad again. Remember these are personal firearms carried by the owner, trade journeys may be totally different.

You and the Minister are correct. If you look at the underlying law - i started a new thread here Exporting Firearms to Europe - what UK law says. EFPs, etc Schedule 15 of Export control order has now been changed that for EU countries you can take /
personal firearms provided you have either

1) an EFP - which only applies to Northern Ireland

or

2) a permit/s from the country or countries to which you are travelling giving you authorisation to possess and use the firearm.

The guidance notes on the Government website hasn’t been changed and still gives misleading information.

 

[GMoney]

Following the discussions on various other posts related to import/ export of personal firearms I have received this reply today from my MP - It supports my original argument and it would appear that nothing has changed when leaving or entering the UK. What happens on the other side of the channel remans to be seen. (I have printed a copy and it is now with my travel documents - just in case). The Annex includes the usual miscreant countries - none in Europe.

"View attachment 209672

Hi Tony. This letter is really helpful. Thank you for posting it. Whilst this covers import/export from a UK Customs perspective, do you have any tips on what is required then from the French authorities now that we can't use a EFP? I'm looking to travel by road from UK to Germany via France and Belgium. Do you think that our FAC plus an invitation will be sufficient? Any advice gratefully received.

 

[TonyC]

The difficulty is that no-one has tried it yet that I am aware of of, there appears to have been a successful trip to Hungary without issue but that was flying. I think you should be ok (also include insurance) but perhaps some of the EU based guys know better. Early days yet.

 

[Sika98k]

Hi Tony. This letter is really helpful. Thank you for posting it. Whilst this covers import/export from a UK Customs perspective, do you have any tips on what is required then from the French authorities now that we can't use a EFP? I'm looking to travel by road from UK to Germany via France and Belgium. Do you think that our FAC plus an invitation will be sufficient? Any advice gratefully received.

I imagine that the French and Belgian authorities would treat you as someone with an unlicensed firearm. the authorities in my country of residence, Ireland, do not recognise the EFP as authority to carry a firearm. You must have a current Irish firearms licence. I see no reason for the French or Belgian authorities to see any different.

 

[TonyC]

But they will accept a FAC as legal reason to posses, the invitation is the legal reason to be there and the insurance is usually mandatory, the EFP is defunct as far as we are concerned (UK ).

 

[Dhindes]

I flew back to Switzerland with my rifle once. Picked it up off the luggage carousel and took it to the red lane " something to declare". Swiss customs simply said - is it yours and are you bringing it back ? , yes , no need for us to see it then- off you go. Simplest thing in the world.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

The driven season is almost upon us then we can see what real world vehicle travel in mainland EU means for yooz UK gun owners.

 

[TonyC]

The driven season is almost upon us then we can see what real world vehicle travel in mainland EU means for yooz UK gun owners.

it would really help if anyone travelling by whatever means feedsback their experience to help others.

 

[MarkD123]

I get out then go to the rifles then they shat a brick and scream don’t get it out we don’t want to see them.

That’s just made me laugh, a lot!
Simply because I can imagine their young, snowflake faces

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I have now put my UK held moderated hushpower Webley 100 onto my German WBK (FAC) so in around six weeks time I will test the waters.

 

[TonyC]

Busy arranging a trip to France and apparently the new rules for transporting firearms from UK have been published -
You are allowed up to two sporting rifles, 100 rounds of ammunition and an invitation letter, it was also suggested that you carry insurance with BASC required by my host.

Don't have any more information but if this is correct then I hope rest of the EU is similar, it's the same requirements as Turkey the last time I was there (pre-covid).

 

[Heym SR20]

Busy arranging a trip to France and apparently the new rules for transporting firearms from UK have been published -
You are allowed up to two sporting rifles, 100 rounds of ammunition and an invitation letter, it was also suggested that you carry insurance with BASC required by my host.

Don't have any more information but if this is correct then I hope rest of the EU is similar, it's the same requirements as Turkey the last time I was there (pre-covid).

So the French don’t require any visitor type firearms licence / permit?

Do you have a link to the requirements? Might make going via France to Germany and lot easier than via the Netherlands which requires a visitors firearms permit, as does Germany.

 

[GMoney]

Busy arranging a trip to France and apparently the new rules for transporting firearms from UK have been published -
You are allowed up to two sporting rifles, 100 rounds of ammunition and an invitation letter, it was also suggested that you carry insurance with BASC required by my host.

Don't have any more information but if this is correct then I hope rest of the EU is similar, it's the same requirements as Turkey the last time I was there (pre-covid).

Have you seen where this is published yet? Thanks.

 

[levigsp]

So the French don’t require any visitor type firearms licence / permit?

Do you have a link to the requirements? Might make going via France to Germany and lot easier than via the Netherlands which requires a visitors firearms permit, as does Germany.

I do not know where you get this from. a good friend who is not on this site went at the beginning of august to Germany to hunt roe, he had his rifle and shotgun. He declared both, they asked for fa cert, and invitation letter which he showed. He left Germany on the 9th and drove down to Croatia to hunt there. If you have you invitation letters for each country you shoot you are allowed into France, from there most countries are schengen area so free passage, Croatia isnt part of that area and ask for invitation letters, firearm cert, insurance.

 

[Heym SR20]

I do not know where you get this from. a good friend who is not on this site went at the beginning of august to Germany to hunt roe, he had his rifle and shotgun. He declared both, they asked for fa cert, and invitation letter which he showed. He left Germany on the 9th and drove down to Croatia to hunt there. If you have you invitation letters for each country you shoot you are allowed into France, from there most countries are schengen area so free passage, Croatia isnt part of that area and ask for invitation letters, firearm cert, insurance.

You need to be very careful about what a “friend” does. You need to look at the law.

German Guidance is quite clear for a non EU person you need prior authorisation from a Competent Weapons Authority

Weapons and ammunition

www.zoll.de

And the Dutch regs are

Licence for weapons and ammunition

In the Netherlands, the possession of all firearms and other weapons is prohibited. If you trade in weapons and ammunition, you need a weapons licence.

business.gov.nl

 

[Tazz]

Thats great news. Now if only they can update and clarrify the information on the website - Exporting firearms

As the information they provide is misleading and just plain wrong.

On a U.K. Government web site, surely not!

 

[Tazz]

Customs/ border force is a complete joke, I have done loads of trips and every time is similar, are you carrying anything untoward, it then goes like this I am carrying firearms here’s the paperwork, right sir can you pull to the side while we take a look, yea ok
I get out then go to the rifles then they shat a brick and scream don’t get it out we don’t want to see them.
So then I say how can you check the serial if you don’t look, they then just get you to swiftly move on.
Why are they in a job there not trained or want to deal with it boils my ****.
My last trip home I had done six in a short timescale and on this occasion I hadn’t stayed in a hotel just a log cabin deep in a German forest, I had nothing to say where I had been which in this instance was unique, normally I have written invite with tracking details for which event I am doing but this last time was Boxing Day and only arranged two days prior so just drove to collect my info, anyway as soon as I got to the booth he asked why so many visits in such a short timescale and what I was upto, he ushered me into a garage for a search and promptly asked if I had guns money knives and drugs to which I replied I had no drugs but I have everything else his eyes lit up like the Christmas tree he thought he’d hit the jackpot only to then see my papers the only thing I had to show were i had been was my Jagdschein that had been stamped at the town hall and a few maps of an area I had been tracking in, after a thorough search I was on my way home but even then they didn’t look at the rifle slips to check, for such an important job you would think they would have the training and knowledge to do the job, the french guys in the other hand are totally different and has been a pleasure to talk about what I have been up to, regards Wayne ps can’t wait to get back out after this long stint

Have I ever mentioned we should never have left?