CDC data for Iceland [where 9 out of 10 persons are vaccinated] does exactly that:
Anti vaxxers need to do some research.
- Thread starter John Gryphon
- Start date
CDC data for Iceland [where 9 out of 10 persons are vaccinated] does exactly that:
If you don't understand why those numbers for Iceland make completer sense, then you're dafter than I thought.
The vaccines are not 100% effective - probably around 70-80%
So, for every 100 people in a population where 90% are vaccinated, 10 people are at risk of catching Covid because they are not vaccinated, and of the 90 who are vaccinated, around 18-27 people (70-80% of 90%) are at risk of catching Covid because the vaccine are not 100% effective.
So, two to three times more people who are vaccinated are at risk of being infected compared to the number of unvaccinated people.
That does NOT mean that the vaccines are a failure.
If none of the population of 100 was vaccinated, then all 100 would be at risk of infection
Interestingly you didn't show how the numbers of hospitalisations and deaths have changed since vaccinations began.
This chart shows the numbers in hospital due to covid since February 2020 for the USA, UK, Israel (another highly vaccinated country) and Iceland
Number of COVID-19 patients in hospital
An interactive visualization from Our World in Data.
ourworldindata.org
Since February 2020 there have been 10658 confirmed covid infections, 436 hospitalisations, 70 admissions to intensive care and 33 deaths.
Those numbers are so small as to be virtually meaningless.
Cheers
Bruce
But how many of those infected are in hospital/ICU/The morgue?
It should also be pointed out that if all 100% of the population had been vaccinated and the vaccine is 80% effective, then ALL of the cases would have come from those who are vaccinated and none would have come form those who aren't vaccinated - because there are no unvaccinated people.
Cheers
Bruce
Cheers
Bruce
What the Oxford University study plus the Israeli and Icelandic vaccination stats show beyond any doubt is that:
Vaccination passports are meaningless because vaccinated persons catch, carry and spread the virus
And circling back to the Icelandic data, the number of cases amongst the vaccinated has always outnumbered the number of cases amongst the unvaccinated.
Even at the point at which the percentage of vaccinated persons was approx 50%.
So...is natural immunity the better defence statistically? [Bloomberg report, israel]
Vaccination passports are meaningless because vaccinated persons catch, carry and spread the virus
And circling back to the Icelandic data, the number of cases amongst the vaccinated has always outnumbered the number of cases amongst the unvaccinated.
Even at the point at which the percentage of vaccinated persons was approx 50%.
So...is natural immunity the better defence statistically? [Bloomberg report, israel]
Not how it works unfortunately, look at the people not giving their kids MMR or polio vaccinations. Diseases that we had got rid of completely are now showing cases in schools.
Vaccination passports are meaningless only if you don't intend to board a plane, visit an office, a gym, a restaurant or theatre etc.
Other than that they are very important.
Last edited:
That’s not really that surprising, is it?
But if you go down the natural here immunity route, foregoing the vaccine, how many are going to get seriously ill and die, how much strain is there going to be on the health service and the economy?
From what you are saying the best thing to protect you is to catch the thing. The vaccine allows you to catch the thing, and pass it on, with far fewer ill effects. Therefore the vaccine is a complete success as it’s allowing people to catch it and get natural immunity without putting the health service or economy under massive strain.
That is of course if natural immunity is the same for those contracting it after being vaccinated. Time will tell.
That’s exactly what I would tell people. The vaccine gives you the best chance of immunity with the lowest risk of serious consequences.
It does, however, make it a personal choice for the individual. Getting a vaccine doesn’t protect anyone other than the vaccinated person so there is no need for vaccine passports or masks or social distancing. The message from now on should be to get a vaccine if you haven’t already because it reduces the risk to yourself.
Rasputin
Well-Known Member
Jab the old and infirm let the rest of us crack on now. Simple really no need to keep locking everyone up just to save a few. Economically we have caused far more harm by going down this stop start nonsense. Whilst we’re at it get kids of their damn xboxes and eating right so we don’t end with yet another generation of useless bloaters who can’t run a mile and bed over to touch their toes.
Rubbish. I’ve just employed a bloke in his 30’s healthy and fit, does (did) ultra marathons. Spent 6 weeks intubated with Covid.
They are doing the right thing jabbing all adults and they did the right thing locking down until the vaccine was sorted.
Very easy to sit back in judgement when your thoughts and decisions have no real consequences.
Rasputin
Well-Known Member
And he’s what a small fraction of a percentage outlier no different to the footballers who have heart attacks happens but very rare. Covid is not killing fit and healthy people in any meaningful number. It’s simple the fitter you are and the more healthy your lifestyle the less chances you have of dying not only from covid but heart disease and many other things.
About time people started taking personal responsibility for their actions and we started accepting that people die and get sick. Vaccination is only one part of the problem and we all still convincingly glossing over the fact that the average covid victim is approx 80 years of age.
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Not all rosy for those aged 45 and above from the look of the latest stats
Attachments
I'm not convinced by Ivermectin and neither is this guy
Cheers
Bruce
Cheers
Bruce
Identity politics. Who’d have thought identity politics would form such a roadblock to pandemic control?
If you identify as a right-wing conservative Christian, you follow a certain narrative. If you identify as a left-wing anti-establishment atheist, you follow a certain narrative. The extremes of the political spectrum have spawned very particular “types” of person in recent years, and underpins much of the identity driven crisis in the US and pretty much every other Western democracy these days. Both groups have spawned various forms of influential anti-vaxxer.
In the meantime, the vast majority of normal people just get on with it and do what’s required. Just like they have when faced with world war, catastrophic earthquakes / volcanic eruptions / hurricanes-cyclones-tornadoes… oh and various horrible global diseases successfully fought with vaccines.
What separates this disease from previous diseases isn’t bad science and pharma greed, government mind control, Ernst Stavro Blofeld or any of the other Dark Forces we are told are out to get us.
The point of separation is identity politics and the rapid divisions emerging in our society. Divisions that are enabled by the extraordinary decline in the quality of information that is the defining characteristic of the Information Age, access to which has convinced millions of people the world over they are a lot smarter than they really are.. My crosshairs are focussed on Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, Steve Huffman…
Influential anti-vaxxers in all their forms are always - always - pushing something for personal gain. Alternative products, books, political influence and all too often amongst their dimwitted followers, a form of paranoid self-validation. The anti-vax follower spending all day on the Internet finding graphs that tell them they are correct, and that all normal people are servile sheep, feeds their identity and validates their fringe socio-political choices. Hours and hours spent reading stuff they don’t understand, written by charlatans masquerading as something they aren’t, all in a desperate push against their irrational paranoia and that insidious, creepy, barely suppressed instinct that maybe, whisper it, they might be wrong.
If you identify as a right-wing conservative Christian, you follow a certain narrative. If you identify as a left-wing anti-establishment atheist, you follow a certain narrative. The extremes of the political spectrum have spawned very particular “types” of person in recent years, and underpins much of the identity driven crisis in the US and pretty much every other Western democracy these days. Both groups have spawned various forms of influential anti-vaxxer.
In the meantime, the vast majority of normal people just get on with it and do what’s required. Just like they have when faced with world war, catastrophic earthquakes / volcanic eruptions / hurricanes-cyclones-tornadoes… oh and various horrible global diseases successfully fought with vaccines.
What separates this disease from previous diseases isn’t bad science and pharma greed, government mind control, Ernst Stavro Blofeld or any of the other Dark Forces we are told are out to get us.
The point of separation is identity politics and the rapid divisions emerging in our society. Divisions that are enabled by the extraordinary decline in the quality of information that is the defining characteristic of the Information Age, access to which has convinced millions of people the world over they are a lot smarter than they really are.. My crosshairs are focussed on Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, Steve Huffman…
Influential anti-vaxxers in all their forms are always - always - pushing something for personal gain. Alternative products, books, political influence and all too often amongst their dimwitted followers, a form of paranoid self-validation. The anti-vax follower spending all day on the Internet finding graphs that tell them they are correct, and that all normal people are servile sheep, feeds their identity and validates their fringe socio-political choices. Hours and hours spent reading stuff they don’t understand, written by charlatans masquerading as something they aren’t, all in a desperate push against their irrational paranoia and that insidious, creepy, barely suppressed instinct that maybe, whisper it, they might be wrong.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
I'm a right wing , anti establishment atheist , and the only narrative I've really followed is Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas , don't worry , I'm not like the others ............no wonder no one wants to hang out with me ........ oh , and get vaccinated .
AB
