Longest deer with copper ammo??

[deerstalker.308]

Very interesting photos @deerstalker.308.

Are you able to confirm what number ribs the entry and exit have hit? From the exit photo it looks like rib #7 or #8? Always a bit tricky to judge if you can’t see the brisket at the front of the cavity.

Without going out to check I think 7 on both sides

 

[deerstalker.308]

Internal organs?

Depending on what you hit, it probably didn't know it was dead and needed some time to realise.

Not using gloves?

Won't get top price from a game dealer otherwise!

Possibly so, however to provide a little context, I’ve been stalking these reds for the past decade and have shot hundreds of them in that time and stalking other species close to 20 years now. You get a sense for what an animal is going to do and he was not going down without a fight. And seeing the size of the exit, I suspect he could have gone quite some distance if a clot had plugged it, and knowing the ground there are bits of it id rather he didn’t get to on his last charge.
If that shot had been with my former 150gr lead rounds he would have staggers and dropped within a few meters.

 

[User00033]

​

This image gives a pretty good representation of the lack of leeway that copper bullets have with shot placement. That’s been our experience with several different designs.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Lowland red, .308 165gr RWS hit at 120m

Too heavy
Too slow
Too hard
No bones

Not a shock

Volume data on exactly that round i have indicates significantly increased run rate than other bullets

The weight is not a problem with bullets of that type that have a large hollow point/softer construction

 

[25 Sharps]

Just changed to the LRX's and have shot them consistently beyond the ranges you have mentioned. The LRX according to Barnes is a softer material and has a superior BC, it bleeds velocity less and expands more reliably than lets say the GMX or the std TTSX. The 7mm with 139 LRX's @ 2950fps was perfectly capable of a 400yd shot but a 7mm rem mag with a bit more oomph with the same bullet would extend that range significantly, Been shooting the GMX out of the 30 cal at around 3400fps and it works well out to about 350-400, beyond that distance I don't know if they would expand reliably enough and haven't tried. Changed the point of impact to high shoulders so that there is resistance and they have all worked as they should. Biggest problem is getting them to sub moa to allow longer shots, probably spent close to £500 on ammo trying to find one that suits the gun..
I have a rule of thumb that when the energy drops below 1300 ftlbs that has been the limit of my shot, don't ask why but that is just my own personal limit..

But you are using a magnum, not a common or garden deer calibre.

That is probably the way many will go, more powder burned to achieve more speed to achieve the same result as a lower power jacketed lead bullet that expands more readily.

 

[25 Sharps]

View attachment 222455​

This image gives a pretty good representation of the lack of leeway that copper bullets have with shot placement. That’s been our experience with several different designs.

Head and neck look big to me

 

[User00033]

Head and neck look big to me

Have a look at decent photos of high quality wild red stags in the rut. Looks spot on to me. A really good mature red stag in the rut looks disproportionally heavy in the front compared to younger, lower quality animals. It's what we look for on the hill from a long way away when glassing and we can't see the rack detail. It's the head / neck / front shoulders that separate the big boys from the rest.

e.g. the Exmoor Emperor

 

[deerstalker.308]

Head and neck look big to me

Helpful. Necks on stags are big, you’re not wrong. The proportion of bone to muscle however is very small, accurately locating the spine in a rutting stag side on is very tricky to do unless it’s front on under the chin or the same from behind. Funnily enough on the odd occasions I have shot them that way I’ve been berated by the game dealers and penalised for meat damage/politely asked not to as there is so much meat in their necks.
Head shots, you crack on, to each their own, not my bag.

 

[25 Sharps]

Have a look at decent photos of high quality wild red stags in the rut. Looks spot on to me. A really good mature red stag in the rut looks disproportionally heavy in the front compared to younger, lower quality animals. It's what we look for on the hill from a long way away when glassing and we can't see the rack detail. It's the head / neck / front shoulders that separate the big boys from the rest.

e.g. the Exmoor Emperor

View attachment 222467

I meant as a target and I was being facetious buddy

 

[User00033]

Oh ha ha ha!

 

[deerstalker.308]

I meant as a target and I was being facetious buddy

And if the rounds don’t open up at all there is even more chance of a runner with neck shooting and that explosive channel created with softer rounds would normally accommodate a slightly off shot. Seeing how these do so little damage neck is not a choice I’d make generally.

 

[25 Sharps]

And if the rounds don’t open up at all there is even more chance of a runner with neck shooting and that explosive channel created with softer rounds would normally accommodate a slightly off shot. Seeing how these do so little damage neck is not a choice I’d make generally.

Yes, that was kind of where I was going with my post…..

It was obviously a bit too subtle with the

 

[deerstalker.308]

Yes, that was kind of where I was going with my post…..

It was obviously a bit too subtle with the

Ok, missed the subtleties there, my bad

 

[griff]

But you are using a magnum, not a common or garden deer calibre.

That is probably the way many will go, more powder burned to achieve more speed to achieve the same result as a lower power jacketed lead bullet that expands more readily.

7mm-08 & 30-06

 

[25 Sharps]

2650 fps providing you are using a 24" barrel ,max range 170m after which the velocity drops off so it will not expand reliably..
shot behind the shoulders so no or very little initiation of the tip.
Hydraulic/hydrostatic shock, call it whatever you want would be minimum.

So lead bullets are better then….

 

[25 Sharps]

I’ve been putting 95gr ttsx through my .270 at 3500 FPS. They do a grand job of killing roe deer. I don’t have a range finder so keep shots under about 300 yards so I don’t have to think about drop.

That is extremely light and fast for calibre though and ain’t going to do your barrel much good!

 

[deerstalker.308]

So, in contrast, I’ve been trialling the Geco Zero 136gr now since this thread prompted me to try something else. Wowzers. What a difference. Knockdown is incredible, wound channel decisive, bullet is designed so the front half splits into petals which detach creating internal damage and the rear “slug” tunnels through creating a wound channel and exit. This was recovered from under the skin of a 140kg (larder weight) stag, the rear section retained 92.5gr of its original 136gr weight, most others have exited with a tiny exit wound but with plenty of organ damage. No bruising or meat damage. Seems to be literally the perfect round.

 

[25 Sharps]

So, in contrast, I’ve been trialling the Geco Zero 136gr now since this thread prompted me to try something else. Wowzers. What a difference. Knockdown is incredible, wound channel decisive, bullet is designed so the front half splits into petals which detach creating internal damage and the rear “slug” tunnels through creating a wound channel and exit. This was recovered from under the skin of a 140kg (larder weight) stag, the rear section retained 92.5gr of its original 136gr weight, most others have exited with a tiny exit wound but with plenty of organ damage. No bruising or meat damage. Seems to be literally the perfect round.

That’s encouraging as my RFD has just started stocking these and the £40 I spent on S&B was a disaster (not deer legal over the chrono)

 

[deerstalker.308]

That’s encouraging as my RFD has just started stocking these and the £40 I spent on S&B was a disaster (not deer legal over the chrono)

Genuinely very impressed, this is in .308 so no idea how that compares to your situation and I’ve not chrono’d them or done anything other than check zero (which was only 2 clicks out anyway), and shoot deer. So far very much good.

 

[25 Sharps]

Genuinely very impressed, this is in .308 so no idea how that compares to your situation and I’ve not chrono’d them or done anything other than check zero (which was only 2 clicks out anyway), and shoot deer. So far very much good.

That as .308, have purchased a .308 and .280 recently and probably going to run factory through the .308 as it’s main use is target but want a deer load for a back up to the .280