Just had an unexpected home visit from 3 officers.

[Sinistral]

New guidelines were issued on Wednesday to come into force on 1st November. If the police have a good reason to turn up at my door within the next 10 days, I'll be happy to let them in after checking their official warrant cards. The explanation for their visit will need to be specific and credible. From 1st November I'll be following the rules to the letter, and will expect the same from them.

Firearms licensing: statutory guidance for police

How police chiefs should carry out checks when assessing someone's suitability to own firearms or become a registered firearms dealer.

www.gov.uk

Unannounced visits

4.7 In the case of certificate holders, the police should undertake an unannounced visit or inspection where it is judged necessary to do so, based on specific intelligence in light of a particular threat, or risk of harm. It is not expected that the police will undertake unannounced visits or inspections at an unsocial hour unless there is a justified and specific requirement to do so on the grounds of crime prevention or public safety concerns, and the police judge that this action is both justified and proportionate.

4.8 A power of entry, subject to warrant, is available to the police. While this is an important power, it will not be necessary in all cases where an inspection or home visit is required. It is expected that responsible certificate holders will co-operate with reasonable requests to inspect security arrangements or other aspects of suitability, and failure to do so may be taken into account when police consider suitability to possess the firearms. To mitigate any misunderstanding on the part of the certificate holder, the police should provide a clear and reasoned explanation to the certificate holder at the time of the visit.

 

[Stalker62]

When did that become law, certainly not a condition on my certificates

It is not. See #20 and #41

 

[Greenmist]

It is not. See #20 and #41

I know, wasn't really asking

 

[Stalker62]

I know, wasn't really asking

Apologies...

 

[Tim.243]

I am in the fortunate position of a direct line number to the Control Room Supervisor so wouldn't have the potential wait on 101. But I was thinking if I am ever in the OP's position I would just ask the visitors for a collar number or two and confirm those with the Control Room from my own phone.

Presumably plain clothes officers still have collar numbers?

Alan

All of them would have a sgt on the desk/duty and been on a route to that call.
Coller number please and who is the SGT on the desk please and go wait in the car while I ring the station...if not I will dial 999. simple if you have your wits abt you.

However wits are hard earnt.

 

[Rewulf]

It is not and never has been a "condition" of you having an FAC/SGC.

Just what I was thinking , I was going to say , where does it say that !

 

[Alantoo]

New guidelines were issued on Wednesday to come into force on 1st November. If the police have a good reason to turn up at my door within the next 10 days, I'll be happy to let them in after checking their official warrant cards. The explanation for their visit will need to be specific and credible. From 1st November I'll be following the rules to the letter, and will expect the same from them.

Firearms licensing: statutory guidance for police

How police chiefs should carry out checks when assessing someone's suitability to own firearms or become a registered firearms dealer.

www.gov.uk

Unannounced visits

4.7 In the case of certificate holders, the police should undertake an unannounced visit or inspection where it is judged necessary to do so, based on specific intelligence in light of a particular threat, or risk of harm. It is not expected that the police will undertake unannounced visits or inspections at an unsocial hour unless there is a justified and specific requirement to do so on the grounds of crime prevention or public safety concerns, and the police judge that this action is both justified and proportionate.

4.8 A power of entry, subject to warrant, is available to the police. While this is an important power, it will not be necessary in all cases where an inspection or home visit is required. It is expected that responsible certificate holders will co-operate with reasonable requests to inspect security arrangements or other aspects of suitability, and failure to do so may be taken into account when police consider suitability to possess the firearms. To mitigate any misunderstanding on the part of the certificate holder, the police should provide a clear and reasoned explanation to the certificate holder at the time of the visit.

Interesting.

I have only read the medical report document. Curiously it estimates that it will cost the police £41 per officer to familiarise themselves on a one off basis with the legislation. But for some reason they say the average salary of applicants is only £2,622 and so the same amount of time spent familiarising will only cost £16.83 per applicant but is an ongoing cost as it will need repeating on renewal each year?...one year licence duration? And they also reckon the Police read at 240 words per minute but the applicants at 240 words per hour? Sloppy work

Alan

 

[WH308]

I would like to think that the police would look favourably on someone showing sufficient diligence to confirm who the visitors were before allowing access to the cabinet. Rather than them taking the opposite approach and thinking you to be obstructive.

If you won’t open the door to the genuine guys without checking you won’t open the door to the non genuine guys.

 

[Alantoo]

simple if you have your wits abt you.

However wits are hard earnt.

True, we can only be helped being a bit better prepared having read this thread.

Alan

 

[25 Sharps]

As an FAC holder, you might find its a condition of having a certificate to let police enter your place of storage without appointment.

I don’t believe that to be true

 

[WH308]

I would like to think that the police would look favourably on someone showing sufficient diligence to confirm who the visitors were before allowing access to the cabinet. Rather than them taking the opposite approach and thinking you to be obstructive.

If you won’t open the door to the genuine guys without checking you won’t open the door to the non genuine guys.

@12gsnapcaps please don’t think this in any way is suggesting that you are non diligent! Having read my post I fear it may come across that way.

 

[Twodogs]

The power of entry as at 4.8 is subject to warrant, that means the officers must have a warrant. If a warrant has been issued, by a court after the police have convinced the court there is a need for such, for an entry, it must be produced at the time and a copy left with the premises owner etc etc.

I am at a loss to think that a warrant could be issued just for a home visit/inspection As the guidance implies.

para 4.10 is also confusing. Powers of seizure are governed by Section 19 PACE, under which there is no mention of danger to safety of the public. If however an FAC/SGC had been revoked then any weapons, not voluntarily surrendered, could be seized as evidence of an offence. S19 PACE only gives a power of seizure not of search, that would have to be done under some other power. Possibly a warrant or If someone had been arrested then there are ample entry/search powers.

 

[12gsnapcaps]

@12gsnapcaps please don’t think this in any way is suggesting that you are non diligent! Having read my post I fear it may come across that way.

No problem, they did have ID and a copy of my FAC. In hindsight I should have checked by at the time I was halfway through a work meeting when they knocked on and I was flustered and wasn't thinking straight

 

[MAH]

New guidelines were issued on Wednesday to come into force on 1st November.

Sinistral. Thanks for sharing a very interesting document.
The content covers many of the topics frequently raised on here.
I note it is Statutory Guidance, which is a few rungs up the legal ladder from the non-statutory Home Office guide on firearms licensing law.

It warrants a thread of it's own to share more widely.

M.

 

[Tim.243]

True, we can only be helped being a bit better prepared having read this thread.

Alan

I was before, people fall apart far too easy. It is like using the rifle you take steps to keep yourself safe and people around you when out shooting. It is all there just people can't mesh the gears.

 

[timbrayford]

As an FAC holder, you might find its a condition of having a certificate to let police enter your place of storage without appointment.

If you read the latest HO Guidance they need to have grounds to suspect an issue first, they can't just turn up at random.

 

[timbrayford]

If a force is that busy, and has to come back a second time, do you think it will play well? The vast majority of FEOs Ive known in 27 years of having an FAC were great.
But a couple were, lets say, deliberately awkward.

Every FAC holder should do what they think is right in such circumstances. I can imagine this interest has been drawn to the dispute, which might be malicious on one side, or is giving cause for concern to police. If it were me, in these circumstances, Id be making things as easy as possible.

Everyone has a different opinion.

Imagine the sh*t that you'd be in if they were bogus cops who "confiscated" your firearms. Your FLD might revoke your certificate for not taking the trouble to ascertain that your visitors were genuine and forget an insurance pay out too.

 

[timbrayford]

New guidelines were issued on Wednesday to come into force on 1st November. If the police have a good reason to turn up at my door within the next 10 days, I'll be happy to let them in after checking their official warrant cards. The explanation for their visit will need to be specific and credible. From 1st November I'll be following the rules to the letter, and will expect the same from them.

Firearms licensing: statutory guidance for police

How police chiefs should carry out checks when assessing someone's suitability to own firearms or become a registered firearms dealer.

www.gov.uk

Unannounced visits

4.7 In the case of certificate holders, the police should undertake an unannounced visit or inspection where it is judged necessary to do so, based on specific intelligence in light of a particular threat, or risk of harm. It is not expected that the police will undertake unannounced visits or inspections at an unsocial hour unless there is a justified and specific requirement to do so on the grounds of crime prevention or public safety concerns, and the police judge that this action is both justified and proportionate.

4.8 A power of entry, subject to warrant, is available to the police. While this is an important power, it will not be necessary in all cases where an inspection or home visit is required. It is expected that responsible certificate holders will co-operate with reasonable requests to inspect security arrangements or other aspects of suitability, and failure to do so may be taken into account when police consider suitability to possess the firearms. To mitigate any misunderstanding on the part of the certificate holder, the police should provide a clear and reasoned explanation to the certificate holder at the time of the visit.

Precisely!

 

[kieran222]

Definitely wouldn't have allowed them in to my house. I have nothing to hide but for security reasons I wouldn't allow anyone in on a cold call.

 

[Kersnow]

Am assuming the new guidance was issued due to police errors at Plymouth?