MeatEater's brother out for blood. How many wounded and lost beasts?

[alberta boy]

Our provinces are ruled by "science" lol sorry, couldn't help but laugh at the statement.
We get to use tracking dogs here in Ontario, heck can even use hounds for deer and bear

Again, the rules are made by people who just dont understand, its like the no discharge or firearms on Sundays - yet i can bow hunt Sundays, can't use a 308 south of hwy 7, but can use a .270 since its not a .30 cal.

I have to admit , the ban on 308 , and other cartridges , in Southern Ontario has always baffled me , that one is truly pointless . One of my hunting partners is from Ontario originally , guaranteed way to get him to come unbolted is bring that regulation up lol .

AB

 

[dobber]

b. No selling game.

imagine if you will a large group of people who may be from elsewhere that like a particular part of a critter - go out on a limb here and say Bear Gall bladder - apparently it can be used for some such made up crap to cure pecker issues - You then have a small population willing to shoot bears and just remove the gall bladder and sell it to the aforementioned group
Wouldn't take long for a local population of bears to be wiped out

 

[alberta boy]

imagine if you will a large group of people who may be from elsewhere that like a particular part of a critter - go out on a limb here and say Bear Gall bladder - apparently it can be used for some such made up crap to cure pecker issues - You then have a small population willing to shoot bears and just remove the gall bladder and sell it to the aforementioned group
Wouldn't take long for a local population of bears to be wiped out

We faced that scourge about 20 years ago . It was very lucrative to sell gall bladders to the Chinese ( I will identify the above mentioned large group of people who may be from elsewhere ) It was well organised and took a lot of work to eradicate , but it was . Some estimates put the number at over two thousand bears that were killed for their gall bladders and paws , the rest were left to rot . The ones responsible were put away for a good stretch , including some Chinese nationals who were heading the poaching crews . It is actually the reason why Black Bears were put on the CITES list , it was to ensure no bear parts were exported illegally . It is illegal to sell any part of big game animals here or export them . Trapped fur bearers and legally harvested big game , meat , hides , horns and antlers taken by foreign hunters are exempted of course , again , done under a license .

AB

 

[mudman]

Depends how you mean go wrong? I can think of one 100% screw up when I lost a roe doe with a high leg wound. It was in very open very flat country and no follow up shots were safe. Per hundred I would guess a handful which require a second shot.

 

[Cootmeurer]

I wonder what is the reasoning behind a. No dogs and b. No selling game.

Any idea?

In the USA we have an overarching North American Wildlife Management Plan that serves as an outline for nearly every state and province. At its core all wildlife is held in trust by the government for the people. So, no one can “own” wildlife. The other major piece of this is that game cannot, for the most part, be commercialized. This stems from a desire to stamp out market hunting, which was almost an game animal genocide in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

As to the use of dogs for big game, that is more an ancestral and regional thing. In the southeast, with many of the European immigrants being from Ireland/Scotland/England the use of hounds for running game is till accepted (although dwindling). In the southwest, except for predators, the use of dogs is culturally unheard of (great many Spanish immigrants here). Much of the Midwest was settled by Germans and they did not bring a dog culture with them. Upper Midwest has a lot of Nordic culture and those that came, for the most part did not bring dogs.

If I want to use a hound with a buckshot loaded shotgun, very normal in The Carolinas. That same thing in Iowa would not only be illegal but culturally shunned. We are a great melting pot, that carries over to our traditions.

 

[gixer1]

Shoot enough deer and you will have misses or bad shots every now and then. To say otherwise is either very lucky or dishonest.

In the last few years I’ve had two I couldn’t find due to location (off the side of a hill and rhododendron cover) I am confident they were well hit but the distance a deer can cover in the time it takes to die, even when we’ll shot, can be far enough to make the difference. I did as much as I could practically to search for them (searching for paint and pins, coming back with dog etc) I did find one of them later and it was off the ground as if it had jumped and landed in the rhoddie branches. After shooting this area for a short time and having had some epic searches through thick rhoddies to find deer I changed to using pinning shots and the effect was instant. Not ideal for meat loss but definitely a more effective shot to suit the terrain.

I also had a clean miss at 170 yards a month or so ago - something I’m putting down to the bullet striking foliage on its way to target.

I have seen first hand some very experienced shots in the US…to state they are “trigger happy and fire at anything” is someone that hasn’t spent much time there. Of course there are idiots, just like there is anywhere else in the world.

And there are numerous opinions on what constitutes an competent person or not.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[Basil H]

This thread has become very interesting. Thanks to all contributors, especially those across the pond.
I have recently been watching "reality" stuff about US game wardens - it's a bit slow and corny but the hugely different philosophy involved is amazing.

 

[Scotty99]

First Nations ( Native ) people are allowed to subsistence hunt , everyone else is limited by tags . Most who still live in the bush , trappers for example , will take game if they need it . There's no one in the remote regions to enforce game laws , so it's a bit of a " don't ask , don't tell "situation . Most Natural Resource Officers I know will turn a blind eye to someone taking game to feed their families if they fall on hard times . I've seen that happen a number of times over the years . The further North you go , the more open to interpretation the game laws become , it gets left to the locals as to what's acceptable . As disorganised as it sounds , it does work for the most part .

AB

I seem to remember some years ago that First Nations people (Inuits I think) were also allowed to subsistence hunt “out of season” as this had always been their historical and ancestoral right. Is that the case?

 

[alberta boy]

I seem to remember some years ago that First Nations people (Inuits I think) were also allowed to subsistence hunt “out of season” as this had always been their historical and ancestoral right. Is that the case?

Yes . All first nations people can hunt year round , hunting seasons don't apply to them , as you say , it's their ancestral right . The Inuit , for instance , still hunt whales , something that has been banned for non indigenous peoples for decades . They usually only take what they need .

 

[Scotty99]

Yes . All first nations people can hunt year round , hunting seasons don't apply to them , as you say , it's their ancestral right . The Inuit , for instance , still hunt whales , something that has been banned for non indigenous peoples for decades . They usually only take what they need .

Thanks, that’s very interesting.

I believe taking what you need (for you and your family) is the purest form of hunting.

 

[dobber]

I have recently been watching "reality" stuff about US game wardens

Some of these shows really highlight the fact that the wardens have no clue about reality and/or physics lol Plus some of the statements they make are based on the laws of that State and not factual or science driven.
The physics comment was from one warden - Archery - when you release the arrow from the string it takes a little bit for the arrow to gain momentum - it is slower upon release than it is 10 yards out - Said it actually gains speed

 

[devon deer stalker]

Mmm, I call BS on this, 2 shots on this Elk at over 600 yards, first shot 'you're high' 2nd shot dropped it, fist pumps all around, I reckon they actually took 7, maybe even 8 shots, then they wondered how it had been previously injured, er, perhaps by hunters taking shots at over 600 yards who don't know what they are doing?
Also being really picky, why do they say 'horns' instead of antlers?
Anyway, take a look at this 'skilled' hunter.