The Decline of BSA (Birmingham Small Arms)
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8x57
Distinguished Member
Yes I had a BSA Regal some years ago, it was chambered in .308win. Not a bad rifle but let down by the poxy Parker Hale rings that I had on it. I should have put a better set of rings on it as it shot straight.
It owed me nothing as I bought it for £30 and sold it for more than I paid for it.
If I could only have one rifle for the rest of my life, it would be my old .222 CF2 varminter.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Fundamentally BSA decline very typical of much of British manufacturing.
Most of these companies had their roots in the entrepreneurial/ industrial late 1800’s when vast fortunes were made and lost in all sorts of industries. Take a drive down either side of the Mersey, Tyne, Clyde or the Forth and look at all the big mansions and villas that were built at that time. If you look at the yacht builders on the Clyde, they were building beautiful 100 to 200 foot yachts for all these wealthy entrepreneurs. And they would cruise and race them every weekend. Where did the money come from - building ships and trade with the new global world.
Many of those entrepreneurs made and then lost huge fortunes in that time - ****ed up against the wall hosting large shooting parties, yachting, horse racing.
But as happens some of that first generation passed their wealth onto the next. And this generation had grown up with huge levels of wealth and carried on the expenditure.
The businesses that created the wealth were now being run to generate income for their owners.
The first world war came along and this did give boost to those businesses making things for the war effort, but at the same time thinned out quite a large number of those who were spending the wealth
Some of those businesses staggered on through the 1920’s with a bit of a boom and into the 1930’s.
By this stage a lot of wealth was now in 3rd Generations so endless numbers of shareholders still trying to live the high life with those running the businesses constantly having to provide cash to pay dividends.
2nd World War came along, and provided another massive shot of life support and there was some brilliant engineering but coming into the 1950’s British business was still in the hands of shareholders whose fundamental view was that industry was trade and not quite quite and not something gentlemen should be involved with.
And all those factories - well the men should be jolly pleased that they have job and why should we spend any of our money on new machinery / innovation / training / development etc etc, when we need the dividends to fund the swinging 60’s.
And the world will buy British because we are the best. When in the 1960’s ships were built on the Clyde by the likes Billy Connolly wealding sledge hammers to fasten plates together with rivets, whilst everywhere else would use one man and a welder to the job of 20.
Meanwhile the party continued. In my own family I look at my grandparents generation and the amount that they quite literally ****ed up against the wall - Chateau Neuf and Scots Whisky did very well out of them.
And by the end of the 1970’s British industry was still using machinery from the 1800’s. The Mini Metro was hailed the great saviour of British Leyland, yet its engine was from the 1930’s and the cars themselves lasted all of about 3 years.
Even today, British industry and technology lack investment. Yes there are beacons of light, but if you look at things like EIS investment schemes - the vast bulk goes into businesses such as Solar farms etc rather than real technology. Most of the money in innovation is coming from overseas.
Indeed look at our energy infrastructure. Most is owned and operated by foreign companies, most of whom are state owned. EDF is the prime example. We pay our energy bills, and any profits go to the French state. And all our car industry is owned by India, Japan and Germany - apologies I forget Ineos is British firm, but its making everything in France and its owner is a non dom.
Most of these companies had their roots in the entrepreneurial/ industrial late 1800’s when vast fortunes were made and lost in all sorts of industries. Take a drive down either side of the Mersey, Tyne, Clyde or the Forth and look at all the big mansions and villas that were built at that time. If you look at the yacht builders on the Clyde, they were building beautiful 100 to 200 foot yachts for all these wealthy entrepreneurs. And they would cruise and race them every weekend. Where did the money come from - building ships and trade with the new global world.
Many of those entrepreneurs made and then lost huge fortunes in that time - ****ed up against the wall hosting large shooting parties, yachting, horse racing.
But as happens some of that first generation passed their wealth onto the next. And this generation had grown up with huge levels of wealth and carried on the expenditure.
The businesses that created the wealth were now being run to generate income for their owners.
The first world war came along and this did give boost to those businesses making things for the war effort, but at the same time thinned out quite a large number of those who were spending the wealth
Some of those businesses staggered on through the 1920’s with a bit of a boom and into the 1930’s.
By this stage a lot of wealth was now in 3rd Generations so endless numbers of shareholders still trying to live the high life with those running the businesses constantly having to provide cash to pay dividends.
2nd World War came along, and provided another massive shot of life support and there was some brilliant engineering but coming into the 1950’s British business was still in the hands of shareholders whose fundamental view was that industry was trade and not quite quite and not something gentlemen should be involved with.
And all those factories - well the men should be jolly pleased that they have job and why should we spend any of our money on new machinery / innovation / training / development etc etc, when we need the dividends to fund the swinging 60’s.
And the world will buy British because we are the best. When in the 1960’s ships were built on the Clyde by the likes Billy Connolly wealding sledge hammers to fasten plates together with rivets, whilst everywhere else would use one man and a welder to the job of 20.
Meanwhile the party continued. In my own family I look at my grandparents generation and the amount that they quite literally ****ed up against the wall - Chateau Neuf and Scots Whisky did very well out of them.
And by the end of the 1970’s British industry was still using machinery from the 1800’s. The Mini Metro was hailed the great saviour of British Leyland, yet its engine was from the 1930’s and the cars themselves lasted all of about 3 years.
Even today, British industry and technology lack investment. Yes there are beacons of light, but if you look at things like EIS investment schemes - the vast bulk goes into businesses such as Solar farms etc rather than real technology. Most of the money in innovation is coming from overseas.
Indeed look at our energy infrastructure. Most is owned and operated by foreign companies, most of whom are state owned. EDF is the prime example. We pay our energy bills, and any profits go to the French state. And all our car industry is owned by India, Japan and Germany - apologies I forget Ineos is British firm, but its making everything in France and its owner is a non dom.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
Ha, after leaving BSA I went to the Humber Car company in Coventry in summer 1966 and spent a few weeks in their very small training centre, compared to the BSAs innovative 150 person setup, the lathe they put me on to prove out what I had learnt at BSA had a made in England "1925" brass plaque on the headstock.
@jc5 did my map on an earlier post on this thread not help you out with the functions? Funnily there was a long row of terraced houses down one side of Armoury Road, how they slept with day and nightshifts going on.
@jc5 did my map on an earlier post on this thread not help you out with the functions? Funnily there was a long row of terraced houses down one side of Armoury Road, how they slept with day and nightshifts going on.
jc5
New Member
Bavarianbrit, your map was a bit too small for my old eyes. I would be grateful if you could post or send a larger picture of that map. Does the map have a date on it?
If I can figure out how to post a photo here without having to host it externally, I will show a photo of the building I am wondering about.
Also, on your map, you said building 15 was your apprentice training centre. Was this originally part of the forge? I suppose the function might have changed after the WWII bomb damage.
Thank you for sharing your memories. I am all ears.
If I can figure out how to post a photo here without having to host it externally, I will show a photo of the building I am wondering about.
Also, on your map, you said building 15 was your apprentice training centre. Was this originally part of the forge? I suppose the function might have changed after the WWII bomb damage.
Thank you for sharing your memories. I am all ears.
lincolnjefferies
Well-Known Member
The home market for sporting rifles was quite small, due to the introduction of quite restrictive firearms licensing after the the first world war.
A lot of rifles went out to the colonies and commonwealth. Unfortunately free trade after the decline of empire, let american imports flood in and undercut British manufacturing. The insistance on making rifles that only fitted Parker Hale scope mounts, seriously effected markets in the US and Canada, where the PH mounts were hard to come by and shooters liked to tinker.
I also heard that a very negative review in the Shooting Times in the early 80's by a very notable stalker, may have seriously effected public confidence in the marque, just as very well marketed Finnish and American products were properly entering the UK market.
Apparently much of the Bsa rifle making machinery ended up rusting on a quayside in India, after a customs dispute.
A lot of rifles went out to the colonies and commonwealth. Unfortunately free trade after the decline of empire, let american imports flood in and undercut British manufacturing. The insistance on making rifles that only fitted Parker Hale scope mounts, seriously effected markets in the US and Canada, where the PH mounts were hard to come by and shooters liked to tinker.
I also heard that a very negative review in the Shooting Times in the early 80's by a very notable stalker, may have seriously effected public confidence in the marque, just as very well marketed Finnish and American products were properly entering the UK market.
Apparently much of the Bsa rifle making machinery ended up rusting on a quayside in India, after a customs dispute.
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Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Aye all of that and of course in the late 60s all these funny little men with yellow skins and big teeth who were endlessly shown round our car, motorbike etc. factories - all constantly scribbling away in their little notebooks. Lord how we laughed…..
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
I found this picture looking down Armoury Road into the factory past the gatehouse where guess who limped out with a 30-06 shortened barreled action that found its way pretty sharpish into the local cut.
I have added some info in the boxes.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
What are using that wagon for?
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Is that when common sense was still readily available and agreeable then?They are demonstrating that you can do work without a hi viz vest and a hard hat, while working off the back of a truck
Common sense died years ago, this is a true story,
We were putting on a music evening in a gothic barn at a council venue, (I was the farm manager ) the stage was built with a scaffold rail all around to stop anyone falling off, two rails about 18 inches apart. They needed to plug in an extension cable about 4 ft above the top rail, well the conversation started about getting a ladder ? A step ladder was produced, someone asked had it been inspected ? No sticker on the ladder, so the H&S man said it could not be used, I said that I had a cert to inspect ladders
, (I actually do, along with a lot of other H&S Cerys) but apparently without a sticker, he said we could not use it ! Anyway off goes the H&S man and the head Gardner to look for another ladder.
When they left I jumped up on the top rail and pushed in the plug, on there return, without a ladder, they asked who and how had the plug been put in, we all looked at each other and shrugged our shoulders, it will have to be unplugged he said ? Me being the usual smart axxe pointed out there was no way of reaching the plug without a ladder, and non of the ones they had, were inspected .
It’s why the UK and Europe in general is doomed, no common sense.
We were putting on a music evening in a gothic barn at a council venue, (I was the farm manager ) the stage was built with a scaffold rail all around to stop anyone falling off, two rails about 18 inches apart. They needed to plug in an extension cable about 4 ft above the top rail, well the conversation started about getting a ladder ? A step ladder was produced, someone asked had it been inspected ? No sticker on the ladder, so the H&S man said it could not be used, I said that I had a cert to inspect ladders
, (I actually do, along with a lot of other H&S Cerys) but apparently without a sticker, he said we could not use it ! Anyway off goes the H&S man and the head Gardner to look for another ladder.When they left I jumped up on the top rail and pushed in the plug, on there return, without a ladder, they asked who and how had the plug been put in, we all looked at each other and shrugged our shoulders, it will have to be unplugged he said ? Me being the usual smart axxe pointed out there was no way of reaching the plug without a ladder, and non of the ones they had, were inspected .
It’s why the UK and Europe in general is doomed, no common sense.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
Jobsworths shall rule the earth said the lord.Common sense died years ago, this is a true story,
We were putting on a music evening in a gothic barn at a council venue, (I was the farm manager ) the stage was built with a scaffold rail all around to stop anyone falling off, two rails about 18 inches apart. They needed to plug in an extension cable about 4 ft above the top rail, well the conversation started about getting a ladder ? A step ladder was produced, someone asked had it been inspected ? No sticker on the ladder, so the H&S man said it could not be used, I said that I had a cert to inspect ladders
When they left I jumped up on the top rail and pushed in the plug, on there return, without a ladder, they asked who and how had the plug been put in, we all looked at each other and shrugged our shoulders, it will have to be unplugged he said ? Me being the usual smart axxe pointed out there was no way of reaching the plug without a ladder, and non of the ones they had, were inspected .
It’s why the UK and Europe in general is doomed, no common sense.
Again slightly off topic… BSA once were leaders in motorcycle manufacturers a very sad decline, same with our car manufacturers there were many, here in Ashford we had the Norman factory producing cycles and motorcycles… the moped “nippy”, everyone had one, the two stoke twins “ leader” ( police had thousands) the B3 sports bike…
Willowbank
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Aye and then along came those awfully nice little Japanese men, always smiling, very polite, scribbling copious written notes at every process and “rots of phorografs” as they were given guided tours of all those many world-leading manufacturers……..
How dumb were we….
Aye and then along came those awfully nice little Japanese men, always smiling, very polite, scribbling copious written notes at every process and “rots of phorografs” as they were given guided tours of all those many world-leading manufacturers……..
How dumb were we….
“ those nice little Japanese men” soon produced the Yamaha 250cc twin. A 100mph “rice burner” which outclassed any of our British bikes at that time. Sorry to go off topic
WB
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Yep - I remember marshalling at the Ulster Grand Prix when the first Jap twin went round - how we all laughed at the screaming revs - agreeing that it would blow up by the third lap. Needless to say it didn’t and within a couple of years the thump, thump, thump of the Nortons etc. became history…..“ those nice little Japanese men” soon produced the Yamaha 250cc twin. A 100mph “rice burner” which outclassed any of our British bikes at that time. Sorry to go off topic
WB
Looking back to my youth, BSA featured very strongly. As far as shooting was concerned, I had a BSA side-by-side 12 bore, a BSA Cadet air rifle and progressed to a Sportsman five .22 LR. My first motorcycle was a BSA Bantam, followed
ed by a Gold Flash and finally, joy of joys, a DBD34 Gold Star.
So I tried to do my bit to keep BSA going!
ed by a Gold Flash and finally, joy of joys, a DBD34 Gold Star.
So I tried to do my bit to keep BSA going!
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