Muntjac lump under skin near shoulder advice please.

[Pellet Pinger]

Just skinning a munty buck and I’ve noticed what look like a fatty lump under the skin at the base of the neck/top of shoulder on each side, I can’t say I’ve ever noticed these before, otherwise carcass and gralloch fine.
Any ideas folks.

 

[sh1kar]

Lymph gland
S

 

[Firefly]

Looks like a large node that’s all. IMHO

 

[Rory]

Yep looks like a lymph node.

 

[StephenToast]

Pre scapular node

 

[Pellet Pinger]

I assume I’m safe to throw my chops on the bbq then.
Cheers.

 

[Selous]

Prescapular lymph node, looks normal

 

[Tim.243]

Just skinning a munty buck and I’ve noticed what look like a fatty lump under the skin at the base of the neck/top of shoulder on each side, I can’t say I’ve ever noticed these before, otherwise carcass and gralloch fine.
Any ideas folks.
View attachment 252664View attachment 252665View attachment 252666View attachment 252667View attachment 252668

Had a very old buck with almond size glands a few years ago. did some reading up about it and the explanation fell right in with what he was.
Old, Big, Bashed up from fighting, on the go defending a large area.

 

[geoffw]

Had a very old buck with almond size glands a few years ago. did some reading up about it and the explanation fell right in with what he was.
Old, Big, Bashed up from fighting, on the go defending a large area.

And that gland is also (I think) linked with septic arthritis which the old munties are prone to Tim.

 

[splash]

As a side note do you like hair in your meal ? I know muntjac are a pain to skin but you seam to have lots of flesh on the skin and lots of pins on the carcass

 

[Pellet Pinger]

As a side note do you like hair in your meal ? I know muntjac are a pain to skin but you seam to have lots of flesh on the skin and lots of pins on the carcass

Lol, I don’t have any problems bringing fur balls up!
Re. the skin, it was a frontal neck shot and if you look where the exit wound is I just ragged the last bit of skin off as it wasn’t being used.

 

[NickJ]

As above a Lymph Node, possibly slightly enlarged (hard to judge scale and I have only shot a dozen or so muntjac) but not overly so and looks hard so not infected (pustular.)
In that site if you don't butcher your own deer or even if you just cook the shoulder whole you might never see them.

I had a roebuck a few years ago that I was dicing the shoulder and hit a prescapular LN that oozed copious pus, not cheesy but like custard, then same on the other side. Other LNs and lungs were fine so @Buchan thought it was most likely a result of an injury to the breast bone region (probably barbed wire fencing) that had left some scarring.

 

[baguio]

And that gland is also (I think) linked with septic arthritis which the old munties are prone to Tim.

Don’t think that that’s correct Geoff. Septic arthritis is caused by joints getting infected through open wounds. The infected joint then heals nearly solid if not treated. When cut through, the joint will be red around the surface of the joint. The original wound will likely still be visible on the skin surface.
Below is a perfect example of septic arthritus in a red hind I shot last season. You can see the original scar on the right side of the middle picture. I had to use a saw to take the leg off.
I can see no reason why any glands would be swollen once the infection has been fought off.

 

[Buchan]

Don’t think that that’s correct Geoff. Septic arthritis is caused by joints getting infected through open wounds. The infected joint then heals nearly solid if not treated. When cut through, the joint will be red around the surface of the joint. The original wound will likely still be visible on the skin surface.
Below is a perfect example of septic arthritus in a red hind I shot last season. You can see the original scar on the right side of the middle picture. I had to use a saw to take the leg off.
I can see no reason why any glands would be swollen once the infection has been fought off.

I thikn what Geoff meant is that the prescpular lymph node drains from the leg, so a septic arthritis would lead to an enlarged lymph node on that side. If I have a lame dog or cat, I always check these as they can indicate infection in the foot.

 

[baguio]

I thikn what Geoff meant is that the prescpular lymph node drains from the leg, so a septic arthritis would lead to an enlarged lymph node on that side. If I have a lame dog or cat, I always check these as they can indicate infection in the foot.

But surely once it's become septic arthritis the infection has long since disappeared? There wasn't fluid in the joint to drain anywhere but I didn't skin the animal or even consider checking for any additional nodes to the normal ones.
I was told that it was septic arthritis by a vet on one of my stalking groups but we never discussed nodes at the time.

 

[Buchan]

Infection is very hard to clear from bone - "The Mechanic" aka @srvet will tell you that, so it's hard to be certain that all the infection will have gone. What usually happens is that draining lymph node remains swollen for quite a while after teh injury has resolved. You while you are right - it should settle, it takes its time

 

[baguio]

Infection is very hard to clear from bone - "The Mechanic" aka @srvet will tell you that, so it's hard to be certain that all the infection will have gone. What usually happens is that draining lymph node remains swollen for quite a while after teh injury has resolved. You while you are right - it should settle, it takes its time

Thank you. Very interesting. Every day is a school day!

 

[Selous]

The majority of septic arthritis cases in most species are as a result of haematogenous spread (via the bloodstream) rather than following a penetrating wound, although that can certainly happen. Infection can take ages to be cleared and some animals will never clear the infection. As @Buchan has said the lymph node may remain enlarged for a considerable period of time after the infection has resolved.

 

[baguio]

The majority of septic arthritis cases in most species are as a result of haematogenous spread (via the bloodstream) rather than following a penetrating wound, although that can certainly happen. Infection can take ages to be cleared and some animals will never clear the infection. As @Buchan has said the lymph node may remain enlarged for a considerable period of time after the infection has resolved.

If it down to haematogenous spread, can the infection simply go to any joint it chooses? What would make it target a certain joint?

 

[Selous]

If it down to haematogenous spread, can the infection simply go to any joint it chooses? What would make it target a certain joint?

It is a matter of chance where the infection localises out, however an already inflamed joint that has a very dense capillary bed can act as a filter for particulate matter including bacteria. Also where the vascular anatomy results in very slow blood flow like adjacent to the growth plates in young animals this can predispose to infection localising in that joint.