Issues With Importing Eggs/Poults France

[landkeeper]

Call me old-fashioned or even naive but why have so many eggs and poults been coming from France for what appears to be some considerable time? Are the costs incurred with local production so substantially greater that it is cheaper to import both? If so there is/was something clearly wrong with our domestic rearing industry.
Just saying.

Foxy it's far cheaper to bring in day olds than keep laying stock for months. Add in the fact that you can get whatever number you need/want and rear in one batch if wanted accordingly rather than hatching and rearing x number of different aged chick's poults
Incubators hatchery brooders are all expensive to run and upkeep

 

[Foxyboy43]

Foxy it's far cheaper to bring in day olds than keep laying stock for months. Add in the fact that you can get whatever number you need/want and rear in one batch if wanted accordingly rather than hatching and rearing x number of different aged chick's poults
Incubators hatchery brooders are all expensive to run and upkeep

Thanks LK - I get that but if you put all your eggs in one French basket you are asking for trouble!! Any business which depends totally on a single supplier is dicing with failure - theirs and the suppliers! Things really are going to have to change - soon!!

 

[Wilbur]

Call me old-fashioned or even naive but why have so many eggs and poults been coming from France for what appears to be some considerable time? Are the costs incurred with local production so substantially greater that it is cheaper to import both? If so there is/was something clearly wrong with our domestic rearing industry.
Just saying.

the thing that’s wrong is called rip off Britain,we have everything that we need in this country from steel to wood to food to whatever else is needed venison included,but it’s cheaper to import it’s a joke,

 

[Magnificent 7]

Call me old-fashioned or even naive but why have so many eggs and poults been coming from France for what appears to be some considerable time? Are the costs incurred with local production so substantially greater that it is cheaper to import both? If so there is/was something clearly wrong with our domestic rearing industry.
Just saying.

No we as a race are just pure lazy I’d say

 

[landkeeper]

It's not down to laziness it's pure economics the moment the option to import became available the traditional catch up breeding stock and rear system started it's decline , there's no way to compete especially when it's such a cut throat business

 

[Foxyboy43]

It's not down to laziness it's pure economics the moment the option to import became available the traditional catch up breeding stock and rear system started it's decline , there's no way to compete especially when it's such a cut throat business

Hmmm. Whatever has happened to British entrepreneurs?

 

[Covert]

Basic economics, I know of plenty of shoots/estates that have downsized or got rid of the keepers.
Most expensive part of running a shoot is the keeper. The cost of house, salary, vehicle etc before any birds are put down. Get rid of the keeper, let the house , get some local guy ,normally middle aged semi retired builder , to work part time with his own 4x4.
No capital expenditure on rearing equipment just buy in poults. Put extra down to cover the losses and Let more days
Part time keeper then buys a suit calls himself the Head Keeper and we continue down the slippery slope.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Basic economics, I know of plenty of shoots/estates that have downsized or got rid of the keepers.
Most expensive part of running a shoot is the keeper. The cost of house, salary, vehicle etc before any birds are put down. Get rid of the keeper, let the house , get some local guy ,normally middle aged semi retired builder , to work part time with his own 4x4.
No capital expenditure on rearing equipment just buy in poults. Put extra down to cover the losses and Let more days
Part time keeper then buys a suit calls himself the Head Keeper and we continue down the slippery slope.

Yep and now being mirrored with stalkers!

 

[countrryboy]

Call me old-fashioned or even naive but why have so many eggs and poults been coming from France for what appears to be some considerable time? Are the costs incurred with local production so substantially greater that it is cheaper to import both? If so there is/was something clearly wrong with our domestic rearing industry.
Just saying.

There will be better informed and some older members who will know better, but this was wot i can vaguley remember now .

But i was under the impression from speaking to 2 local game farmers who were at it for decades and produced quality birds, now both gave it up, 1 retired mibbee 5 years ago and the other gave it up about 15-20 years ago just when things started to move to france.

While economics must play a part it can't be just that simple as some UK game farms and estates do have there own laying stock and 1 or 2 uk game farms still have there own closed flocks they keep 365 just for breeding.
So they know the genetic purity of the laying stock rather than just a caught up random strain birds
If it was purely just down to economics i doubt those boys would survive, i dunno if there birds are much/slightly dearer, and some shoots will pay a premium for quality birds, but they must be in the general ball park or they wouldn't sell much.
Possibly there marigns are a lot tighter thou, but then again this year they will know exactly wot they have available to sell.
Which ay be a bigger selling point for next season.
The larger shoot i pick up on has only just had its birds confirmed this week, right numbers ( althou no red legs) but 6 weeks later

I was under the impression about 20 ish years ago when the big shift to france occured, various medicines were taken away for use for game birds in this country and husbandry rules changed also, I imagine EU laws but some of our continetial brothers took a far more relaxed view, as usual when it suits them.
I know the husbandry rules changed again relatively recently again and are due to change again in a few years time
So i think the far more relaxed husbandy possibly couple with medicines not available here also help to swing it in favour of buying stock in.

Plus buying stock in if ur a game farmer means u can buy the right numbers of the right strains for ur orders, it would be a nightmare keeping different strains of birds and there eggs all seperate and then getting enough eggs/chicks of each variety to fill incubators/sheds and time them with when the buyer wants them.
Far easier just to order x many kanas on a date and y many ring necks on a different date to suit ur orders 6 or 7 weeks later

The lad that gave it up 15-20 years ago got sick of the quality of chicks he was getting, said just too much bother with disease in the stuff he was getting from france so pulled the plug, not worth the hassle and he couldn't always guarantee the quality of poult he used too.

 

[nun_hunter]

Hmmm. Whatever has happened to British entrepreneurs?

They saw they could import French birds cheaper, undercut the domestic market and make money

 

[Foxyboy43]

They saw they could import French birds cheaper, undercut the domestic market and make money

And now………

 

[nun_hunter]

And now………

They made their money and will probably move onto something else. That's what entrepreneurs do especially when it's about the money, they're very flexible and evolve where they see a niche.

It's the end user who will either pay more or have less options where to shoot.

 

[243 fallow]

Foxy it's far cheaper to bring in day olds than keep laying stock for months. Add in the fact that you can get whatever number you need/want and rear in one batch if wanted accordingly rather than hatching and rearing x number of different aged chick's poults
Incubators hatchery brooders are all expensive to run and upkeep

Also they got some different strains in, it’s ok catching up but I’ve always thought the stuff we catch up is the **** that didn’t go over the guns or just didn’t fly well, and we tried breeding **** with more ****, the imported birds gave us some new blood and better flying birds ,

 

[Foxyboy43]

Depressing reading but on a positive note our 300 eggs started hatching today! Fingers crossed we might get a season after all…..

 

[foxdropper]

It’s not all doom and gloom lads

 

[countrryboy]

Also they got some different strains in, it’s ok catching up but I’ve always thought the stuff we catch up is the **** that didn’t go over the guns or just didn’t fly well, and we tried breeding **** with more ****, the imported birds gave us some new blood and better flying birds ,

Are all the imported birds closed flocks then i take it??

Another thing with being abroad esp if further south they will start laying earlier so u can get ur birds earlier in year.
I mind 1 of the game farmers laughing how early he was offered chicks 1 year

 

[243 fallow]

Are all the imported birds closed flocks then i take it??

Another thing with being abroad esp if further south they will start laying earlier so u can get ur birds earlier in year.
I mind 1 of the game farmers laughing how early he was offered chicks 1 year

It’s all gone pear shaped this year that’s for sure, it’s also highlighted the fact that there’s as many unscrupulous people involved in the shooting industry as there is anywhere else which is great shame. Yes they’d be all closed flocks.

 

[Covert]

There will be better informed and some older members who will know better, but this was wot i can vaguley remember now .

But i was under the impression from speaking to 2 local game farmers who were at it for decades and produced quality birds, now both gave it up, 1 retired mibbee 5 years ago and the other gave it up about 15-20 years ago just when things started to move to france.

While economics must play a part it can't be just that simple as some UK game farms and estates do have there own laying stock and 1 or 2 uk game farms still have there own closed flocks they keep 365 just for breeding.
So they know the genetic purity of the laying stock rather than just a caught up random strain birds
If it was purely just down to economics i doubt those boys would survive, i dunno if there birds are much/slightly dearer, and some shoots will pay a premium for quality birds, but they must be in the general ball park or they wouldn't sell much.
Possibly there marigns are a lot tighter thou, but then again this year they will know exactly wot they have available to sell.
Which ay be a bigger selling point for next season.
The larger shoot i pick up on has only just had its birds confirmed this week, right numbers ( althou no red legs) but 6 weeks later

I was under the impression about 20 ish years ago when the big shift to france occured, various medicines were taken away for use for game birds in this country and husbandry rules changed also, I imagine EU laws but some of our continetial brothers took a far more relaxed view, as usual when it suits them.
I know the husbandry rules changed again relatively recently again and are due to change again in a few years time
So i think the far more relaxed husbandy possibly couple with medicines not available here also help to swing it in favour of buying stock in.

Plus buying stock in if ur a game farmer means u can buy the right numbers of the right strains for ur orders, it would be a nightmare keeping different strains of birds and there eggs all seperate and then getting enough eggs/chicks of each variety to fill incubators/sheds and time them with when the buyer wants them.
Far easier just to order x many kanas on a date and y many ring necks on a different date to suit ur orders 6 or 7 weeks later

The lad that gave it up 15-20 years ago got sick of the quality of chicks he was getting, said just too much bother with disease in the stuff he was getting from france so pulled the plug, not worth the hassle and he couldn't always guarantee the quality of poult he used too.

As with most things in this modern world money is the main driving force but there have been other contributing factors.
Stopping the legal use of anti coccidiosis drugs, increase in infectious sinusitis, change from catching up to closed flock laying stock, and the exponential growth n demand for game shooting.
Most commercial shoots are so far removed from traditional game shoots. Not unusual for individual shoots to be putting down more than was put down in the entire county 50 years ago. Not enough eggs produced in the U.K. to meet demand, therefore eggs are imported fro France. Climate better, larger land mass , large producers outsourcing to contractors can produce the numbers required.
In the U.K. the rise of large Agri businesses combing game shoots with game farming, hospitality, dead game etc import the majority of eggs to rear and sell onto customers. Several outfits hatching hundreds of thousands a week.
Ultimately going to go bang, hopefully this current situation will be the kick up the arse the industry needs.

 

[landkeeper]

Yes closed flocks and specific lines/types of pheasants and some will even 'blend' a mix of genetics to order

 

[Covert]

Yes closed flocks and specific lines/types of pheasants and some will even 'blend' a mix of genetics to order

Most pheasants are mongrels, seen many fads/fashions over the years. Bohemians , melanistic, Japanese greens, Scandinavians, ring necks , black necks etc
As long as breeding stock is healthy, not too big and can fly I wouldn’t worry too much.
FYI the Chinese type which has been in favour for a number of years commonly called bluebacks, michigans, Kansa come from the same source. They just rebrand them every few years to increase sales.
Bill McFarlane in America managed to export 2 batches of wild eggs from China in the 80’s and 90’s. The pure original line has never left the farm, he has crossed them with his stock. These birds have been exported around the world.