243 still viable?

[Bowland blades]

Well what an entertaining read. With my 243 I have taken a huge lowland Red Stag, a big Oryx, and Warthog, Red hind out to 300 yards and Baboons out to 300 yards. None of them went more than one step and the oryx just dropped. There is so much crap talked about calibres, provided it is legal get calibre and just learn to shoot the bloody thing , it aint rocket science.
Tusker

exactly but here lies the issue being discussed, " 243 win in its std twist cannot reliably stabilize 100 grain copper " . Note "reliably" , at certain speeds, loads and certain barrels it might very well shoot ok but it will be on the raggy edge. Although i personally never experienced an issue with 100 grain lead , others have so expecting one off the rack to work is something more risky than betting on the liberals winning the next election . Length of the bullet dictates the twist rate
Hopefully Scotland see sense and uses the English and Welsh legislation of Muzzle energy , though we still cannot shoot roe here in England with 22 cf 1000 ft lb !
The deer act calibre legislation was of course drafted by " deer men ! "
Let us just not rock the apple cart too much as we could end up with something far worse than we have already . Got to say it though a fast twist built .243 win would be awesome with copper but we would then need the like Barnes and others take it on. I am btw using 6.5mm 100 grain TTSX at 3200 fps and it totally slays big stags, without a big mess breaking both shoulders and exiting on 300 yard stags Its is also very effective on the CWD , roe etc

 

[Erik Hamburger]

I have used non-lead factory loaded amo in a .243W for years now, and it is performing just fine on Muntjac and Roe.
(I use Lapua Naturalis Factory loaded .243W)
The advice I have been getting recently is that if the larger deer species are your main target you're better off using a larger calibre if you use non-lead amo, something to do with the density/size/speed issues, the technicalities escaped me but hopefully somebody will explain better than I can.
But if you're mainly after CWD, Muntjac and Roe, a non-lead .243W bullet will do just fine.

 

[pjkaz]

My first rifle Sauer 202 in .243 shot all uk species with it no problem still use it today .Paul

 

[ChesterP]

I have used non-lead factory loaded amo in a .243W for years now, and it is performing just fine on Muntjac and Roe.
(I use Lapua Naturalis Factory loaded .243W)
The advice I have been getting recently is that if the larger deer species are your main target you're better off using a larger calibre if you use non-lead amo, something to do with the density/size/speed issues, the technicalities escaped me but hopefully somebody will explain better than I can.
But if you're mainly after CWD, Muntjac and Roe, a non-lead .243W bullet will do just fine.

I think that the perceived issue with standard twist rates and non lead bullets is that sectional densities are less comparatively than lead bullets, which may affect penetration on larger deer species. I haven't seen any evidential studies for this yet but anecdotal suggestions are based upon a rule of thumb that if switching to non toxic (a contradiction in terms by the way because copper is still toxic to the environment), to up the cal or to raise velocities. I think where the .243 was concerned, shooting longer distances for highland stalking in standard twist rates may not develop reliable penetration but having not tried them, cannot comment further. Those that do use this combination over say 200 yds to 400 yds will be better qualified to comment. It could be a non-issue or there may be evidence other than theoretical mathsticulation!

 

[User00040]

Wonder how many .243 naysayers actually own one?

A read of this should but the issue to rest: Enough gun? The .243 Winchester - Hard Yards Hunting

It's an open secret that the 'calibre' issue in the Scottish Deer Laws was based off data gleaned from ammunition boxes and reloading manuals by the Deer Commission...

Feel sorry for the person who had to write it all up! If computers were a thing back then it would have been a quick scan or two along with copy-paste, would be done in under a day, then away to the Gunsmith's Bar!

 

[Bowland blades]

I have used non-lead factory loaded amo in a .243W for years now, and it is performing just fine on Muntjac and Roe.
(I use Lapua Naturalis Factory loaded .243W)
The advice I have been getting recently is that if the larger deer species are your main target you're better off using a larger calibre if you use non-lead amo, something to do with the density/size/speed issues, the technicalities escaped me but hopefully somebody will explain better than I can.
But if you're mainly after CWD, Muntjac and Roe, a non-lead .243W bullet will do just fine.

actually its all about bullet length in the 243 win twist rates . 243 if it had a 1-8 0r 1-7 twist and a 100 grain bullet in say the ttsx it would be phenomenal ! would also blow up frangible varmint bullets before they got to the target though with the above twist and the high velocities ( spin rate) it would achieve .

 

[Island]

exactly but here lies the issue being discussed, " 243 win in its std twist cannot reliably stabilize 100 grain copper " . Note "reliably" , at certain speeds, loads and certain barrels it might very well shoot ok but it will be on the raggy edge. Although i personally never experienced an issue with 100 grain lead , others have so expecting one off the rack to work is something more risky than betting on the liberals winning the next election . Length of the bullet dictates the twist rate
Hopefully Scotland see sense and uses the English and Welsh legislation of Muzzle energy , though we still cannot shoot roe here in England with 22 cf 1000 ft lb !
The deer act calibre legislation was of course drafted by " deer men ! "
Let us just not rock the apple cart too much as we could end up with something far worse than we have already . Got to say it though a fast twist built .243 win would be awesome with copper but we would then need the like Barnes and others take it on. I am btw using 6.5mm 100 grain TTSX at 3200 fps and it totally slays big stags, without a big mess breaking both shoulders and exiting on 300 yard stags Its is also very effective on the CWD , roe etc

I realise that I must sound like I am continuously beating the same drum...

ScotGov accepted in principle ALL of the recommendations from the DWG Report.

The one that has everyones knickers in a knot is the "immediate move to non-lead ammunition". In fact it has caused so much consternation that it appears the majority of people stopped reading because the VERY NEXT recommendation was that the "minimum mass" requirement be reviewed to take into account the issues that everyone is aware of regarding stabilising a 100gr non-lead bullet in a standard twist .243Win. If I recall correctly the DWG Report suggested further research to ascertain the exact figure, but recommended a ballpark of 80gr.

There is nothing in the UK that will not fall to a well placed 80gr monometal bullet from a .243Win...

 

[Bowland blades]

I realise that I must sound like I am continuously beating the same drum...

ScotGov accepted in principle ALL of the recommendations from the DWG Report.

The one that has everyones knickers in a knot is the "immediate move to non-lead ammunition". In fact it has caused so much consternation that it appears the majority of people stopped reading because the VERY NEXT recommendation was that the "minimum mass" requirement be reviewed to take into account the issues that everyone is aware of regarding stabilising a 100gr non-lead bullet in a standard twist .243Win. If I recall correctly the DWG Report suggested further research to ascertain the exact figure, but recommended a ballpark of 80gr.

There is nothing in the UK that will not fall to a well placed 80gr monometal bullet from a .243Win...

seems that basc are running with the mis trust of government also as they are now suggesting no toxic should start at 6.5mm and over. that pretty much means they are asking for 243 win rifles to escape the non toxic ammo thing . Hey i dont know more but i do know i am not happy to trust any government at their word

 

[Magnificent 7]

seems that basc are running with the mis trust of government also as they are now suggesting no toxic should start at 6.5mm and over. that pretty much means they are asking for 243 win rifles to escape the non toxic ammo thing . Hey i dont know more but i do know i am not happy to trust any government at their word

Half of basc must own 243s then as they only do anything for there own gain lol

 

[ChesterP]

BASC seem to be anything BUT representing the interests of shooters. They've become little more than a political lobbying organisation who do things behind closed doors in a way which suggests following modern thinking on political correctness so as not to rock the boat.

 

[Rake Aboot]

.243 could probably kill Roe even if you loaded it with plasticine

Have you seen the damage even a 50gr .243 round will do ?

 

[Bowland blades]

BASC seem to be anything BUT representing the interests of shooters. They've become little more than a political lobbying organisation who do things behind closed doors in a way which suggests following modern thinking on political correctness so as not to rock the boat.

yet BASC do tend to be the ones who get the message out there better than the majority . Nobody will ever be happy that is why we have so many orgs . Only good thing is they now work together more so do shoot the messenger just because it says BASC

 

[ChesterP]

There'll always be differing opinions on them. I'm not a great fan but yes, I whole heartedly agree that there is more benefit having a far more unified approach by them all, and not having one organisation push their own views, much of which polarises shooters. Unification is something which has been lacking for...ever. There's no incentive for them to work closely which is a shame. I am not shooting the messenger, and do follow closely what they do (and don't do) and am just one person amongst many where the view is that they represent their interests, which don't necessarily represent the majority interests of people who shoot. It was the same 30 years ago and little has changed.

 

[308tikka]

they are asking for 243 win rifles to escape the non toxic ammo thing .

Suits me. Ill happily shoot 105gn from a 1:8 twist 6mm. Or a 95, 90, 87 85 or an 80..... they all work very well.

 

[Foxyboy43]

And for roe in Scotland - which they do with aplomb.

Too much hearsay and worry about these things

Hmmm. Shot lots of roe in Krankieville with the sainted triple deuce and 55gns sierras - nothing ever ran off so nuff said on that. However it always bemuses me that the British Army’s round of choice - designed to incapacitate or kill a human of say 12 stones is considered insufficient for the comparatively tiny roe in the southern area of Borisland. Go figure…..l

 

[Tim.243]

Hmmm. Shot lots of roe in Krankieville with the sainted triple deuce and 55gns sierras - nothing ever ran off so nuff said on that. However it always bemuses me that the British Army’s round of choice - designed to incapacitate or kill a human of say 12 stones is considered insufficient for the comparatively tiny roe in the southern area of Borisland. Go figure…..l

England has a Monarch Elizabeth II, so you being from the "UK" might have a square yard to stand in Go figure...

 

[SussexSteve]

Would never be without one for deer Ive shot thousands with the 243

 

[Dawnrazor]

Would never be without one for deer Ive shot thousands with the 243

I'm the same, I've used a .243 exclusively for 31 years, it's taken huge Peak District Red Stags, Sika Stags and Hinds from the Borders to the Highlands, Roe, Muntjack, Fallow and Foxes, I've had a few runners but that was always down to me.
It always makes me giggle this "it's not big enough" argument, it may be more accurate (pardon the pun!) to say "it's not fashionable enough" but it's definitely effective enough.

 

[bogtrotter]

Shot a couple of Reds with mine in and it seems OK.

 

[Smellydog]

.243 could probably kill Roe even if you loaded it with plasticine

Have you seen the damage even a 50gr .243 round will do ?

Ah but has a study been done on the effects of plasticine in the environment?