243 still viable?

[topscots1]

Yes - and I have had it said to me on more than one occasion. Not that long ago Fife constabulary would allow .222 and .223 for use on Roe in Fife as anything else was far more dangerous.

They also look at muzzle energy etc and think there is a huge difference between 1,000 ft lbs and 4,000 ft lbs. There is, but I am not sure any sentient being hit by either will know the difference.

I think the powers that be still have a deep seated view on high velocity rifles that dates to the start of the last century and early firearms licencing. They were not far removed from muzzle loading black powder rifles as the main equipment of the military, and then in the 1890’s along come magazine rifles such as the Lee Enfield, Mauser and suddenly the ability to hit man sized objects at many hundreds of yards was well within the capabilities of the average infantry man, rather than a specialist target shooter. And we were in a time of revolution with a new world order.

That institutional memory in the likes of the Police and Home Office will still exist.

Strange,

in the same area I have had everything from 222 to 300 wm approved and conditioned for any and all deer. On an open certificate, if the urge so took me I could happily use a 300 wm to shoot Roe in Fife. I choose to use a 223 or 308 depending on my whim because it’s capable and cheaper to feed.

Did you question that statement by the officer or civilian staff making the statement ?

I’ve also happily used 243 to shoot reds out to 200 metres, they all dropped some after a short run others on the spot, much the same as any other calibre I have used.

243 is a nice soft shooting accurate round, some bargains to be had in used rifles at the minute for those that don’t get worked up by the hype.

 

[JohnSmith]

Can we get a necropsy thread going? To post photos of what certain bullets/calibers are doing based on shot placement?

 

[baguio]

im an ideal world your bullets wouldnt and all yhe energy would be dumped in the deer.

And you would be left with no blood trail to follow. You consider that Ideal because I don’t!

 

[Acm]

Can we get a necropsy thread going? To post photos of what certain bullets/calibers are doing based on shot placement?

Probably won’t work @JohnSmith
people would have to go and shoot deer

 

[stevenedwards]

I had considered selling both my .243’s and going down the 6.5 route but I’m to old to grow a man bun

You don't need a man bun if you get a proper 6.5 The swede

 

[Bowland blades]

Great cartridge, shot one for decades ! would i buy another at this time in history ? Nope! though there are some bargains about as folks trade good guns in for a 6.5mm or larger

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

.243 is no different to any other rifle
put it in the wrong hands and it will cause suffering and issues

100gr Non Lead options are available for those looking to keep the faith in the cartridge

 

[ChesterP]

I just wonder with all the talk of shot placement and whether there's a blood trail or not, most folk still shoot classic "engine room" H&L shots?

Some years back, after this parish's Dodgyknees posted some really interesting and comprehensive details on the CNS shot position and effectiveness, I was converted to this. I am amazed it's not now recommended as the most humane and reliable shot, not least because any deer hit squarely or very close to the CNS area tends to drop like a sack of spuds. I know that with small species it has the added benefit of resulting in less meat damage if the animal is destined for your dinner table. Many Munty I've shot with the 308 have been hit accurately in heart/lungs area but more often than not, that cal tends to rupture the rumen or gut due to hydraulic action. That's why I use either the 223 or 6.5 for smaller deer now.

 

[Heym SR20]

Agreed. Why we cannot shoot Roe using a .223 we'll never know. Some beaurocrat sitting reading too many energy tables and doing non sensical calculations. If it's good enough for Scotland and other parts of the world based on the evidence of humane kills, one would think that the authorities might rethink their advice in England and Wales. It's good enough for NATO to use 5.56 as the main round for hoomin beans too...

But in Scotland we have a min muzzle velocity of 2450 fps, so many perfectly good deer cartridges and loads cannot be used. Many many really good 6.5 Mannlichers and 303’s were declared obsolete and handed in as their original loads don’t meet this velocity thresholds, although perfectly possible with lighter handloads.

And heaven forbid if you wanted to use a 30-30, 444, 45-70, or even the 375 H&H, 470 NE and other big game cartridges.

And correct me if I am wrong, but in England I think you can still shoot a deer with a muzzle loading rifle (if it meets the energy threshold), but in Scotland you would get it to the velocity required!!!!!

 

[Heym SR20]

Strange,

in the same area I have had everything from 222 to 300 wm approved and conditioned for any and all deer. On an open certificate, if the urge so took me I could happily use a 300 wm to shoot Roe in Fife. I choose to use a 223 or 308 depending on my whim because it’s capable and cheaper to feed.

Did you question that statement by the officer or civilian staff making the statement ?

I’ve also happily used 243 to shoot reds out to 200 metres, they all dropped some after a short run others on the spot, much the same as any other calibre I have used.

243 is a nice soft shooting accurate round, some bargains to be had in used rifles at the minute for those that don’t get worked up by the hype.

I was quoting what it was like in the days of Fife constabulary - since becoming part of Police Scotland they have become much more accommodating.

 

[Home Loader]

I would just like to take this opportunity to thank all those rushing to change their 243s for some larger magical calibre. Good condition second hand rifles or take off barrel prices are going through the floor good news for those of us who are happy to stick to the calibre. I've just ordered a mint sauer 202 second hand barrel for 2 bags of peanuts.
But can I also please ask you keep the chatter about 243 not being good enough, down as I don't want mine acting all offended and start identifying as something else.

 

[ChesterP]

But in Scotland we have a min muzzle velocity of 2450 fps, so many perfectly good deer cartridges and loads cannot be used. Many many really good 6.5 Mannlichers and 303’s were declared obsolete and handed in as their original loads don’t meet this velocity thresholds, although perfectly possible with lighter handloads.

And heaven forbid if you wanted to use a 30-30, 444, 45-70, or even the 375 H&H, 470 NE and other big game cartridges.

And correct me if I am wrong, but in England I think you can still shoot a deer with a muzzle loading rifle (if it meets the energy threshold), but in Scotland you would get it to the velocity required!!!!!

Yes, I'd forgotten about that! The rules will never make practical sense unless viewed in light of current available cals used by the majority but point taken about the big heavy loads. They wouldn't need to meet the current velocity minimums to fell the largest of deer! I don't see why they can't just stipulate M/E requirements and a reasonable minimum velocity which accounts for the likes of a 45/60 etc since it would ensure that either way, sufficient stopping power is used. That would be far to sensible though...

 

[thomashd]

I would just like to take this opportunity to thank all those rushing to change their 243s for some larger magical calibre. Good condition second hand rifles or take off barrel prices are going through the floor good news for those of us who are happy to stick to the calibre. I've just ordered a mint sauer 202 second hand barrel for 2 bags of peanuts.
But can I also please ask you keep the chatter about 243 not being good enough, down as I don't want mine acting all offended and start identifying as something else.

If anyone wants to abandon a Bergara .243, preferably in nice condition with a wooden stock, I have a slot on my ticket and I have been looking for one for some time! Even better if it comes with a mod and 30mm rings.

 

[Smellydog]

But in Scotland we have a min muzzle velocity of 2450 fps, so many perfectly good deer cartridges and loads cannot be used. Many many really good 6.5 Mannlichers and 303’s were declared obsolete and handed in as their original loads don’t meet this velocity thresholds, although perfectly possible with lighter handloads.

And heaven forbid if you wanted to use a 30-30, 444, 45-70, or even the 375 H&H, 470 NE and other big game cartridges.

And correct me if I am wrong, but in England I think you can still shoot a deer with a muzzle loading rifle (if it meets the energy threshold), but in Scotland you would get it to the velocity required!!!!!

The guidance to the police trys to deter any muzzleloading rifle to be used on quarry other than shot from a smoothbore. Don't ask me why. I tried and tried for decades.

30/30 can make the numbers with light bullets for Scottish roe.
When I took reds up there with a 30-30 they didn't call "foul"!

 

[Bowland blades]

Shot 243 win std twist for twenty years on deer . Never had a problem with it , though plenty with no experience told me i would have with say Sika stags , they shut up when i showed them pictures of large gold medal beasts . That said never trust the government to do anything well , so as i was getting ready for a new barrel i changed to 260 rem . Guess what ? i shoot 100 grain ttsx with that and have with the same load taken CWD to Big Red stags and i can bust through both shoulders at over 300 yards with that little 100 grain bullet
As i say though " i dont trust the Government" they will do what suits them in minimum time and effort.
ITS NEVER THE GUN OR THE CARTRIGE , its the person who decides to take the shot

 

[Magnificent 7]

But in Scotland we have a min muzzle velocity of 2450 fps, so many perfectly good deer cartridges and loads cannot be used. Many many really good 6.5 Mannlichers and 303’s were declared obsolete and handed in as their original loads don’t meet this velocity thresholds, although perfectly possible with lighter handloads.

And heaven forbid if you wanted to use a 30-30, 444, 45-70, or even the 375 H&H, 470 NE and other big game cartridges.

And correct me if I am wrong, but in England I think you can still shoot a deer with a muzzle loading rifle (if it meets the energy threshold), but in Scotland you would get it to the velocity required!!!!!

My 375 is running 2900 FPS more than enough for any uk deer

 

[Cris]

Probably swimming against the tide here, but its only the most popular round because FEO's think its the "safest" rifle for beginners. Basically they want to give out the smallest calibre they can and restrict our choice as much as possible. As a deer stalking round it's always been marginal and should be the reserve of accurate shots who are self disciplined enough not to take chancy shots - certainly not novices.

When for the sake of .5 mm you could be shooting a light recoiling 6.5 delivering considerably more energy with great chance of a humane kill, I really fail to see the attraction of what is basically a varminting round.

Because it just works. That said I do shoot 6.5 theses days with copper but only after 25 years with a .243.

 

[tusker]

Well what an entertaining read. With my 243 I have taken a huge lowland Red Stag, a big Oryx, and Warthog, Red hind out to 300 yards and Baboons out to 300 yards. None of them went more than one step and the oryx just dropped. There is so much crap talked about calibres, provided it is legal get calibre and just learn to shoot the bloody thing , it aint rocket science.
Tusker

 

[Dawnrazor]

I wonder how many Deer of all flavours and sizes have been killed by the .243?

 

[Dawnrazor]

Well what an entertaining read. With my 243 I have taken a huge lowland Red Stag, a big Oryx, and Warthog, Red hind out to 300 yards and Baboons out to 300 yards. None of them went more than one step and the oryx just dropped. There is so much crap talked about calibres, provided it is legal get calibre and just learn to shoot the bloody thing , it aint rocket science.
Tusker

Pretty much sums it up.