Articles on the effect of eating lead shot game on human health

[Heym SR20]

There is often a sentiment raised by those who are rather dubious about conversion to non-lead ammunition. The argument is “where are the studies that show eating lead shot game is damaging to human health?”

An article published in 2017 in American Journal of Medicine

Chronic Lead Intoxication From Eating Wild-Harvested Game

The purpose of this article is to determine if conversion from eating wild game harvested with lead-based ammunition to nonlead-based ammunition results in lower blood lead levels. Supersonic injection of toxin-leeching frangible projectiles into food is intuitively bad. As much as 95% of the...

www.amjmed.com

And it also cites a number of studies of indigenous populations that eat a lot of lead shot game meat.

I found this having also this good summary from University of Melbourne

Lead from ammunition is a threat to everyone's health

Ammunition is a major source of environmental lead pollution; alternatives could be used to protect Australian wildlife, says a University of Melbourne expert

pursuit.unimelb.edu.au

I have recently a PhD thesis on lead in man and it cites anecdotal observations from the First World War and workers in ammunition factories making lead bullets were getting seriously ill.

 

[User00040]

Conslusions made before the tests were done, process skewed towards desired result, unsurprising from 'green' academia.

Fake news!

 

[Smudger687]

Interesting articles. There are a few points I would raise:

1. Even bonded lead rifle rounds indeed do fragment extensively on game. But the same is not true for lead shotgun pellets as far as I have seen. You're less likely to swallow a whole pellet than a microscopic particle of lead caused by bullet fragmentation. A shotgun pellet also has far less exposed surface area per unit volume than microscopic lead particles, and thus would lead to reduced absorption for the same mass of lead absorbed. It's worth being mindful of this difference when results from lead rifle shot game is being used to justify a ban on lead shotgun pellets on game.

2. The second article that dredges up wetland is interesting, as it demonstrates the so-called selection bias phenomenon; the reason it found the same densities as those of the 1970s is that lead pellets that fall into wet mud/bog sink into the mud and are then protected from atmospheric oxygen. This near completely prevents the pellets' corrosion. Without becoming a lead salt, its mobility in the environment, as well as its toxicity, is near zero. In other words, the pellet just sits there in the mud and does nothing. It would actually have been worse if they dredged the wetland and found no lead shot at all. This is the deep irony of banning lead over wetlands - it's probably the best environment to use lead shot in, in terms of mitigating environmental impact.

3. Sickness induced from working in an ammunition plant, where the primary route of exposure is likely from lead dust entering the lungs, does not necessarily carry over to sickness from consuming lead shot game. Again, it's worth bearing this in mind when results are extrapolated into too dissimilar a situation.

To be clear, I myself wouldn't eat lead shot game either, but there is a great deal of bad science being used to justify lead bans, and it's important that it be recognised for what it is.

Also, having had extensive exposure to the academic environment, it's worth keeping a healthy amount of scepticism when reading papers such as these. Research is seldom as objective as many like to portray; more often than not you can make your results say anything you like by a change in assumptions or test conditions.

 

[Heym SR20]

And I have following up some of the cited articles

This is a paper from 2009 looking at the effects on 30 white tailed deer harvested by hunters using 7mm Rem Mags and widely available over the counter lead ammunition.

These deer were eviserated in the normal manner and then meat processed.

To test for the bio-availability of lead fragments they used pigs as a well understood biological surrogate for human.

Two cohorts - one fed with venison without any lead particles, and one with. Blood samples are taken both before and after, and those fed with lead contaminated venison showed significantly elavated levels of lead in their blood.

Lead Bullet Fragments in Venison from Rifle-Killed Deer: Potential for Human Dietary Exposure - PMC

Human consumers of wildlife killed with lead ammunition may be exposed to health risks associated with lead ingestion. This hypothesis is based on published studies showing elevated blood lead concentrations in subsistence hunter populations, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Heym SR20]

Interesting articles. There are a few points I would raise:

1. Even bonded lead rifle rounds indeed do fragment extensively on game. But the same is not true for lead shotgun pellets as far as I have seen. You're less likely to swallow a whole pellet than a microscopic particle of lead caused by bullet fragmentation. A shotgun pellet also has far less exposed surface area per unit volume than microscopic lead particles, and thus would lead to reduced absorption for the same mass of lead absorbed. It's worth being mindful of this difference when results from lead rifle shot game is being used to justify a ban on lead shotgun pellets on game.

2. The second article that dredges up wetland is interesting, as it demonstrates the so-called selection bias phenomenon; the reason it found the same densities as those of the 1970s is that lead pellets that fall into wet mud/bog sink into the mud and are then protected from atmospheric oxygen. This near completely prevents the pellets' corrosion. Without becoming a lead salt, its mobility in the environment, as well as its toxicity, is near zero. In other words, the pellet just sits there in the mud and does nothing. It would actually have been worse if they dredged the wetland and found no lead shot at all. This is the deep irony of banning lead over wetlands - it's probably the best environment to use lead shot in, in terms of mitigating environmental impact.

3. Sickness induced from working in an ammunition plant, where the primary route of exposure is likely from lead dust entering the lungs, does not necessarily carry over to sickness from consuming lead shot game. Again, it's worth bearing this in mind when results are extrapolated into too dissimilar a situation.

To be clear, I myself wouldn't eat lead shot game either, but there is a great deal of bad science being used to justify lead bans, and it's important that it be recognised for what it is.

Also, having had extensive exposure to the academic environment, it's worth keeping a healthy amount of scepticism when reading papers such as these. Research is seldom as objective as many like to portray; more often than not you can make your results say anything you like by a change in assumptions or test conditions.

Yes understand healthy scepticism in Academia- have an MPhil from Oxford and professionally I look at, due diligence and invest into many scientific based businesses, many of which are associated with medical science and based on discoveries or indeed university spinouts.

 

[Smudger687]

Again, I'm not disputing the effects from lead rifle shot game. My first point was to be mindful of extrapolating the results on health from eating large numbers of microscopic lead particles to that of much larger lead shotgun pellets.

 

[NullMac]

Yes understand healthy scepticism in Academia- have an MPhil from Oxford and professionally I look at, due diligence and invest into many scientific based businesses, many of which are associated with medical science and based on discoveries or indeed university spinouts.

You will therefore be familiar with the concept of sweating the data and the low success rate in replicating scientific studies in general. Have any of studies been replicated ?

 

[Heym SR20]

You will therefore be familiar with the concept of sweating the data and the low success rate in replicating scientific studies in general. Have any of studies been replicated ?

There are now many many different studies that have been done on the toxicity of lead in man and other animals and birds, and the bioavailability of such lead when it is ingested.

I am much more interested in how the removal of lead from man can be used to prevent and treat cancers and other disease. And there have been and ongoing studies where the removal of lead from the blood of patients undergoing palliative care for secondary leukaemia are showing very promising results - as in the vast majority are fit and healthy several months after treatment and showing little sign of the disease.

The comparator group who were not given the treatment only survived a few weeks.

These results are not yet published for commercial reasons.

 

[Rewulf]

Results​

While eating lead-shot meat, the patient was consuming 259.3 ± 235.6 µg of lead daily and his blood lead level was 74.7 µg/dL. Conversion to nonlead ammunition was associated with a reduced blood lead level.

Have you paid for the whole article , to find out how much this single patients blood level dropped by, once he went to non lead ?

The idea that he was 'consuming' 259.3 ± 235.6 µg of lead daily, with an associated, fairly high blood lead level seems to me a strange situation, when the article states 'A patient subsisting solely on lead-shot meat ' makes for a rather skewed study does it not ?
This may be the norm for some very, very small minority, but in general population terms is highly unusual.
The article summary does not seem to mention the general health of the patient, unless that information is past the paywall too ?

 

[Whitefront]

Lovely stuff, lead:

Walsall firing range staff treated for lead poisoning

The UK Health Security Agency says it is checking a recent change to ventilation at the building.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Rewulf]

Lovely stuff, lead:

Walsall firing range staff treated for lead poisoning

The UK Health Security Agency says it is checking a recent change to ventilation at the building.

www.bbc.co.uk

I can see some compensation claims going in .
The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) says it is checking a recent change to ventilation at the building.

The place has been there a while, yet all of a sudden theyve developed severe symptoms.
Its very important that small enclosed firing ranges like this are properly ventilated.

 

[User00040]

Lovely stuff, lead:

Walsall firing range staff treated for lead poisoning

The UK Health Security Agency says it is checking a recent change to ventilation at the building.

www.bbc.co.uk

Let's get those horrible lead primers binned then!

Oh wait, the commercial availability of lead free primers is next to nothing.

We'll just have to give up shooting then, hooray!

 

[Freeforester]

Bows and arrows it is then..

As someone who butchered venison and sold to customers/end consumers for more than 15years, I don’t understand why anyone in their right mind would wish to offer to their source of income any product which was likely to end up harming them? The remedy I deployed was fairly straightforward: shoot the animal either a) in the head or b) back off the shoulders (through the ribs), and then

DISCARD the contaminated part.

My customers were with me as regulars, and to the best of my knowledge none of them have been injured by eating lead:

prevention is better than cure

Now, where did the sledgehammer go - I wonder if it is still in the nut bowl?

 

[levigsp]

I find all this very strange.
Hasn't face just publish the EU data that was withheld deliberately by them to get the lead ban through.
It clearly shows that as a % lead shot game meat contains less lead than most water! vegetables, etc Oh and supermarket meats!
I all a load of Bull crap.

 

[Franchi Matt]

John Wayne was always raising awareness of a belly full of lead.

When you consider the vast amount of food safety recalls every day by house hold named companies- lead from shooting isnt the biggest enemy we face.

 

[Heym SR20]

Bows and arrows it is then..

As someone who butchered venison and sold to customers/end consumers for more than 15years, I don’t understand why anyone in their right mind would wish to offer to their source of income any product which was likely to end up harming them? The remedy I deployed was fairly straightforward: shoot the animal either a) in the head or b) back off the shoulders (through the ribs), and then

DISCARD the contaminated part.

My customers were with me as regulars, and to the best of my knowledge none of them have been injured by eating lead:

prevention is better than cure

Now, where did the sledgehammer go - I wonder if it is still in the nut bowl?

Agree, but when have large through put type facilities where profits are everything do you think they remove all the contaminated parts.

An owner managed master butcher is one thing. A production line producing pies or dog food etc is another.

 

[eldon]

Interesting articles. There are a few points I would raise:

1. Even bonded lead rifle rounds indeed do fragment extensively on game. But the same is not true for lead shotgun pellets as far as I have seen. You're less likely to swallow a whole pellet than a microscopic particle of lead caused by bullet fragmentation. A shotgun pellet also has far less exposed surface area per unit volume than microscopic lead particles, and thus would lead to reduced absorption for the same mass of lead absorbed. It's worth being mindful of this difference when results from lead rifle shot game is being used to justify a ban on lead shotgun pellets on game.

2. The second article that dredges up wetland is interesting, as it demonstrates the so-called selection bias phenomenon; the reason it found the same densities as those of the 1970s is that lead pellets that fall into wet mud/bog sink into the mud and are then protected from atmospheric oxygen. This near completely prevents the pellets' corrosion. Without becoming a lead salt, its mobility in the environment, as well as its toxicity, is near zero. In other words, the pellet just sits there in the mud and does nothing. It would actually have been worse if they dredged the wetland and found no lead shot at all. This is the deep irony of banning lead over wetlands - it's probably the best environment to use lead shot in, in terms of mitigating environmental impact.

3. Sickness induced from working in an ammunition plant, where the primary route of exposure is likely from lead dust entering the lungs, does not necessarily carry over to sickness from consuming lead shot game. Again, it's worth bearing this in mind when results are extrapolated into too dissimilar a situation.

To be clear, I myself wouldn't eat lead shot game either, but there is a great deal of bad science being used to justify lead bans, and it's important that it be recognised for what it is.

Also, having had extensive exposure to the academic environment, it's worth keeping a healthy amount of scepticism when reading papers such as these. Research is seldom as objective as many like to portray; more often than not you can make your results say anything you like by a change in assumptions or test conditions.

"Fudge factors" it always make me smile when I hear the term but its true and a bit like statistics.

Who paid for the research gets the answer they wanted supported by "academic facts"

 

[Ratcatcher]

Unfortunately it seems to me that lead in all of its guises is for the chop, those in power have been told " You're all going to die" therefor any chance of exemptions, air pellets, target shooting etc is in my opinion fancyful. The irony for me and thousands of others in Derbyshire where I live is all my water comes through lead pipes! So quite frankly I'll take my chances on a lead pellet or fragments in a tasty piece of venison

 

[tikkathreebarrels]

Unfortunately it seems to me that lead in all of its guises is for the chop, those in power have been told " You're all going to die" therefor any chance of exemptions, air pellets, target shooting etc is in my opinion fancyful. The irony for me and thousands of others in Derbyshire where I live is all my water comes through lead pipes! So quite frankly I'll take my chances on a lead pellet or fragments in a tasty piece of venison

Derbyshire isn't alone. And yet, there seems to be a lack of research & evidence pointing out how large numbers in the national population growing up and living with lead delivery pipes for their domestic water supply ALL suffered life-changing ill effects. Likewise all the people who ate game shot with lead before anyone even knew it was bad for them. Why, I expect that I and my entire family died years ago, prematurely, in agony and with clear evidence of toxic poisoning.
And all those roofers working with lead as a roofing material: I guess they're all dead too.

 

[Kjf]

That lead, It's a bugger on ya teeth lol



Kjf