Govt statement on lead shot

Conor O'Gorman

Well-Known Member
House of Commons - Written Answers - Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. Answered on: Tuesday 21 July 2020

Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley):

To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, if his Department will make an assessment of the potential environmental effect of reducing the use of lead shot in shooting sports and activities.

Victoria Prentis (Banbury):

Lead is highly toxic and most of its uses are regulated to prevent exposure to humans and the environment. Between 50,000 and 100,000 wildfowl are estimated to die each year in the UK due to lead poisoning from spent gunshot. Lead poisoning can also have a negative effect on other wildlife, especially scavenging raptors. That is why, in England, the use of lead shot is prohibited for shooting certain species of wildfowl and for use over certain sites of special scientific interest by the Environmental Protection (Restriction on Lead Shot) (England) Regulations 1999 (as amended).

Recently the EU Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals (REACH) Committee, which addresses the production and use of chemical substances and their potential impacts on human health and the environment, has proposed an amendment of the current EC regulation on the use of lead in gunshot over wetlands. The Government will consider the evidence review recently undertaken by the European Chemicals Agency and the proposal from the REACH Committee before deciding if any changes to UK regulations are required. The availability and effectiveness of alternatives to lead ammunition, such as steel and copper, will form part of the consideration.

On 24 February 2020, nine shooting organisations issued a joint statement calling for the end of using lead and single-use plastics in ammunition for live quarry shooting with shotguns over five years. We welcome this voluntary move and applaud these organisations for reaching this decision. It is a significant step for both wildlife and the wider environment.

The Government continues to support shooting activities which benefit the rural economy and the environment, including wildlife and habitat conservation.

 
Recently the EU Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals (REACH) Committee, which addresses the production and use of chemical substances and their potential impacts on human health and the environment, has proposed an amendment of the current EC regulation on the use of lead in gunshot over wetlands.

So can I ask a direct question? Were or are there ANY proposals by the EU REACH committee to restrict the use of lead over land other than that which classed as "wetlands"?
 
What happens and what people want are completely 2 different things!

the lead ban is coming!
Not when the people paying there wages had no say what so ever. If you go with "lead ban is coming, lead ban is inevitable" should we just hand all our guns in now for when shooting is banned? This seems a counter productive way of doing business. The best form of defence the basc seem to come up with is to bend over and lube up so it doesnt hurt so much, no thanks mate!
 
Why post this - why not e-mail it to those who believe it - it doesn't change a thing.
This post is all over shooting sites - the 'significance' of the MP who asked for a written answer is - never heard of him, is he a Member or a past visitor to a clay shoot ?
Truly mesmerising - for some.
 
Do 50- 100k birds still die every year due to lead???
How long has lead been banned over wetlands in the UK? Yet still losing 50k birds
Having severely out of date info like that does not help our cause.

Would it not be better to put the correct info out there in the 1st place, education over scare mongering.

As Enfield says it only talks about lead shot over wetlands ( which to be fair is not actually illegal in england, as lead ban was species dependant not ecosystem dependant like in Scotland) but really wouldn't make much difference.

That betrayal letter from basc will be used as a great big stick to beat us with now and there is bugger all we can do about it.

If basc put as much time effort and spin into actually defending shooting instead of trying to justify there completely stupid decisions shooting would be in a far better position and they could probaly justify there self proclaimed title as the voice

Think that's why basc has more staff need more to cover there own arse and fix al the mistakes there making
 
Not when the people paying there wages had no say what so ever. If you go with "lead ban is coming, lead ban is inevitable" should we just hand all our guns in now for when shooting is banned? This seems a counter productive way of doing business. The best form of defence the basc seem to come up with is to bend over and lube up so it doesnt hurt so much, no thanks mate!

Im a realist not a dreamer!

i dont shoot shotguns anymore so i only stalk, if you think Just because we pay wages, that the politicians are going to take any notice of the few votes and yes we are few compared to the rest of the voting public your in a dream land.

ive said it before on here, find and alternative for lead and crack on for as long as possible before they ban recreational shooting all together!
 
Im a realist not a dreamer!

i dont shoot shotguns anymore so i only stalk, if you think Just because we pay wages, that the politicians are going to take any notice of the few votes and yes we are few compared to the rest of the voting public your in a dream land.

ive said it before on here, find and alternative for lead and crack on for as long as possible before they ban recreational shooting all together!
Lee i was talking about basc mate not government, well aware we have no voice there.

Just because you dont shoot shotguns anymore doesnt mean that others dont, i know alot of people who have lost a hell of a lot of money with side by sides plunging in value from this decision, is that fair?

I dont believe on putting restrictions on ourselves, its like going into a pub where you know youre going to scrap and then putting your hands behind your back.

You reccomend something for a shotgun that provides the same performance at the same costs and I will look into buying it, until then I, amongst the majority, will continue to shoot lead.
 
Read more about the estimate of between 50,000 and 100,000 wildfowl dying each year in the UK due to lead poisoning from spent gunshot on GWCT website here:

Lead ammunition - Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust

The 2015 research paper is here:

In summary, from a recent article in Sporting Shooter:

The simple fact, the GWCT says, is that lead is dangerous to wildlife. When any bird or mammal ingests spent lead ammunition by mistaking it for grit or foodstuffs, or by scavenging unretrieved shot quarry, it can result in lead poisoning. In addition, animals that are shot but not killed may carry lead shot in their bodies and this adversely affects their wellbeing.

Lead ammunition degrades very slowly and so may take several decades or longer to become unavailable to foraging wildlife. Recent published estimates (2015) suggest 50,000-100,000 wildfowl die each year from lead poisoning in the UK, with between 200,000 and 400,000 thought to suffer welfare effects from ingestion or through embedded lead.

Computer modelling of bird populations and correlative studies suggest that lead poisoning may be affecting population growth rates and sizes in a number of bird species in the UK, including dabbling ducks, diving ducks and grey partridges, and in common buzzards and red kites in Europe.

Source:
 
I fly hawks as well as shoot, ( I am still using lead) however If my hawk eats A piece of number 6 shot in anything i feed her. She would be dead within the week. How many Shooters discard crows shot over stubble by throwing them in the corner of the field. ?? Wild raptors die of lead poisoning and it is bad publicity. -
 
Im a realist not a dreamer!

i dont shoot shotguns anymore so i only stalk, if you think Just because we pay wages, that the politicians are going to take any notice of the few votes and yes we are few compared to the rest of the voting public your in a dream land.

ive said it before on here, find and alternative for lead and crack on for as long as possible before they ban recreational shooting all together!
united we stand - divided we fall
Each and everyone of us!
 
And from Europe the latest on lead
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15.07.2020 Deadline: Ban on lead in ammunition postponed at EU level. The voting procedure was "ended without result" and postponed to September
+++ July 15, 2020 Update +++ The Czech Republic resisted the ECHA's written online voting procedure – which we also consider highly undemocratic – and the overly broad and generic definition of wetlands.

That was the point: on July 15, 2020, the end of lead shot – possibly not only for hunting in and around wetlands – could be decided at EU level. This means that the already existing regulations for water bodies would be extended to wetlands and, by definition, temporary puddles would also become wetlands.
piergiorgio-molinari.jpg
A contribution from Piergiorgio Molinari07/15/2020
Lead  ammunition and shotshell pellets
Notwithstanding the many critics and the lack of both scientific data and support from governments, the European Commission hurries off towards an EU-wide total ban. Curiously enough, lead slugs are not included in the ban.

+++ July 15, 2020 Update +++ As AFEMS (Association of European Munitions Manufacturers) has just announced, today's vote to ban lead shot in wetlands has been "ended without result". The Czech Republic had opposed both the voting procedure and the Ramsar definition of wetlands.

The deadline was on July 15, 2020 – today. Yesterday, just one day before the expiry of the written voting procedure on the proposed EC restriction on the use of lead shot in wetlands (which, with the support of Germany, would certainly have passed), European authorities surprisingly decided to stop the whole process.
This was made possible thanks to the intervention of the Czech Republic, who opposed the use of the online written procedure to discuss the issue and, reportedly, also the overly broad and generic definition of wetlands.
It should be noted, however, that a few days ago Germany supported the proposed restriction with the promise by the EU Commission to extend the transitional period from two to three years.
The written voting procedure is therefore considered "concluded without a result". However, it is very likely that a new vote on a possible fourth revision will take place in September.

Unfortunately, the implications of a “lead ban” have not been understood, and instead attempts are being made to enforce that ban by all means.
The fact that alternatives such as soft iron shot are highly problematic, that they require special shotguns and that many alternative materials are much more problematic than lead is swept under the carpet. "Green ammo" is the motto – no matter what the consequences are. From our point of view, this is irresponsible and without any vision. Without any tendency to exaggerate: in the long run this is the end of hunting and shooting. Apparently, some of the protagonists are interested in exactly that.
Stay tuned to all4shooters to find out more!
Background to the vote in the REACH Committee on 15.7.2020
We at all4shooters.com have been informing our readers about the restrictions proposed by Brussels since 2015, when the European Commission requested the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) to prepare a restriction on lead shot over wetlands. We also already explained how these proposed restrictions are mostly ideologically-driven and why a complete ban would be a disaster for hunters, shooters, the industry and the environment alike (see here). In fact, the idea of the “poisonous lead ammo” is a myth per se.
Notwithstanding the many critics and the lack of both scientific data and support from governments (even if 23 Member States have already phased out lead gunshot for hunting over wetlands), the EC has always picked itself up and hurried off towards an EU-wide total ban as if nothing had happened. But there are some major problems in its proposal.
A (very) badly drafted proposal
To sum up some of the most compelling issues:
Wetland area
What is a “wetland”? The scope of the EC proposal is based on the Ramsar definition. Unfortunately, that definition is quite ambiguous since it includes expansive areas without visible water (“peatlands”).
The definition of “wetland”: the scope of the EC proposal is based on the full Ramsar definition, I.e. “Areas of marsh, fen, peatland or water, whether natural or artificial, permanent or temporary, with water that is static or flowing, fresh, brackish or salt, including areas of marine water the depth of which at low tide does not exceed six metres”. Unfortunately, the Ramsar definition is quite ambiguous since it includes expansive areas without visible water (“peatlands”). According to that definition, in fact, even a 1m² area of temporary water which appears in an otherwise dry field after a shower of rain could equate to “wetlands”. Add to this the so called 100 m “buffer zones” around wetlands and confusion is complete: no hunter, or officer, will ever be perfectly sure whether he/she is in a wetland or not. The stand-alone use of that definition (without designation) is not precise enough to be capable for legal application in the Member States. Here, the principle of legal certainty is gone.
Reversed burden of proof: the Commission proposes that “if a person is found carrying (lead) gunshot in or within 100 m of wetlands while out shooting or as part of going shooting, the shooting concerned shall be presumed to be wetland shooting unless that person can demonstrate that it was some other type of shooting”. This is a complete reversal of burden of proof, since it presumes that a hunter is noncomplying and the accused hunter must exonerate itself from accusation. The “presumption of guilt” takes the place of the presumption of innocence – a fundamental principle of Western legal traditions, by the way.
The transition period: a much shorter transition period (24 months) is proposed by the EC for the total transition from lead shot to “green ammo”. The transition period should be at least 36 months following ECHA’s socio-economic analysis and 60 months for countries that have no restriction in place (Ireland, Slovenia, Malta, Poland, Romania). Actually, it sounds like just a bad joke. It takes some research time to develop unleaded ammunition that ensures ethical killing and no environmental effects also in wetlands. Safety is an issue too: how many hunters/shooters have old firearms which would need replacement, adjustments and reproofing to fire unlead cartridges with different pressures?
The role of REACH and consumer products: this is the first time that the Commission proposes consumers (i.e. hunters) and not manufacturers, importers and distributors to be addressees of a restriction. The REACH regulation was originally intended for “industry” only. Can it legally apply to hunters as “consumers”? This would expand the scope of REACH far beyond its original remit, creating a dangerous precedent and further confusion. For example, ethanol is also a substance under REACH, and alcohol-related problems are well known. Could this demonstrate that EU-wide action is necessary to address the risk arising from the consumers’ use of alcohol in a harmonised manner?
All in all, to quote FACE/AFEMS's conclusion, “the draft restriction is so badly drafted that it is impossible to apply in practice. Everybody knows that something is wrong but politics prevent the Commission from making some fundamental (but basic) changes.”
What's at stake
Hunting shotgun and ammo
A complete lead ban would be a disaster for hunters, shooters, the industry and the environment alike.
According to FACE data, the sector employs more than 580,000 people in Europe and the annual turnover is around €40 billion, when including the revenues generated by hunting and shooting activities, as a whole. All in all, this comprehends 200 distributors, 14,000 retailers, 300,000 collectors and over 10 million hunters and sport shooters in Europe.”
Not just manufacturers and hunters, but also sports and clay shooters should be worried about the “lead ban”. Most shooting ranges will be affected because most are within 100 m of a wetland (like dry peatland), and the rules of international shotgun competitions are based on lead ammunition.
What could/should we do?
What is needed is a close coordination between organization such as AFEMS–FACE–IEACS–SAAMI to develop, share and promote inputs for an integrated activity stimulating the national associations and companies to speak and coordinate a strategy.
The aim is to have a direct dialogue with a friendly government. Otherwise, when the national authority is hostile to the topic, use other instruments to be heard. A) Highlight the issue to those ministries that you have a link with; B) Create the preconditions for the hostile institution to justify its position or take responsibility; C) Involve a member of the parliament – part of the majority – to forward a parliamentary query to make pressure.
Publishing on generalist/economic newspapers and/or websites press agencies and/or social media what is happening, providing coherent and credible arguments, is also useful.
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This is a very informative website regarding the use of lead in Europe, and their " VOICE OF SHOOTING GROUPS " that are light years ahead of ours in fighting their corner.
of course Conor would have to list the details of Denmark and omit to mention the rest of Europe and what the state of play is.
 
I'm surprised there are no BASC studies.
The Oxford symposium study was presented by RSPB, WWT, and they both attempted to skew the LAG as BASC said at the time when it and CA pulled out.
Here is a key bit , " we estimate that 73,750 birds of the 16 species presented in Table 3 might die every winter in Britain from lead poisoning following gunshot ingestion (this figure would be slightly higher for the UK) ". Hardly surprising given who is making the estimates and their purpose in calling the symposium. Estimates and might die are not what I would call convincing science BASC obviously thinks otherwise.
Their estimate of lead shot weight is quoted as 8-12K tons annually and the symposium then suggest that the 5K (which is a more accurate figure) is " broadly similar". A scientific paper which suggests that 5,000 tons is broadly similar to an amount twice the size - come on.
Sorry I don't buy it - I didn't when Swift reneged and I don't now.

Unquestionably smoke and mirrors.
 
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